GoodWood Posted June 7, 2007 Report Posted June 7, 2007 Ok, I am still having problems with my padouk sides. I used a regular iron, heated to 320, over a 2" pipe to try to get some more bend, with NO luck. The steam was flying , it has no problem bending, but my god it bounces right back to where it is 2 inches longer than the mold. I want to get rid of most of that tension, here are my thoughts. I am at altitude, about 5500 feet, so the 310 needs to be 340 or something. Padouk is more difficult to bend? But the front and middle bend fine? It is about .78 average thick. ?? THX! Quote
Daniel Sorbera Posted June 8, 2007 Report Posted June 8, 2007 I'm no expert (by any stretch of the imagination ) but I would try overbending it, and than clamping it to the mold while it dries. Or possibly holding it in the overbent state while it dries? Quote
GoodWood Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Posted June 9, 2007 I'm no expert (by any stretch of the imagination ) but I would try overbending it, and than clamping it to the mold while it dries. Or possibly holding it in the overbent state while it dries? Yea, I tried that, it did bend more though. It cupped when I first heated it, so imagine it concave, then I 'flatened' it, althoug I did not get all the cup out. That is what I think is holding me back. So its a bit wavey in parts. The hot iron (320) on the wood over a 3 inch pipe didnt do anything....butIll have to try it again. Thats with the heat blacnket under it.....Im pushing my luck here, I know..... Grrrrrrrr.... Quote
fryovanni Posted June 9, 2007 Report Posted June 9, 2007 GW- You still working on that same set of Padauk? Did you ditch the heat blankets and are just using hot pipe and a household iron now? Quote
GoodWood Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Posted June 9, 2007 (edited) GW- You still working on that same set of Padauk? Did you ditch the heat blankets and are just using hot pipe and a household iron now? Yes, still on it. Im using a 3" pipe with the heat blanket draped over it, heated to like 330, AND the house iron, heated to 320 direct on the wood. That did NOTHING to help the bend, even though the wood was very floppy, so to speak. Its about .78 I ran the thermometer up to 340 and kept it at that heat (bottom of wood on metal) on the mold and it took a little more wetted, taped the aluminum, took off the aluminim and watered steam water steam, but still I have 2 inches of slack. Rediculuse huh? Its not going to give me what I want until I get the wobble out, and that is not going to happen anytime soon. I may just call this my test run, and use the mahogany set, or just the sides with a Padouk back. I only paid 30.00 for the Padouk, I picked it up. So its no major loss. But it is a nice looking set. I may post some pics later. Somewhere I skipped a step to clamp the wood, steel together, the books dont mention this. Begginers beware! Edited June 9, 2007 by GoodWood Quote
GoodWood Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Posted June 15, 2007 http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=foxbenderkv1.jpg http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5810/foxbender1iu1.jpg Well, I put the blanket on the bottom so it was already heated and foil wrapped the wood. The heat stayed away from the rear end until I wanted it there. The hot iron on top really makes it steam good! I know ovens need to be a bit hotter at altitude, so I figure I keep the temp to around 330. I used the hot flat iron as well, and it went pretty good, just a little swearing. (Where is the OTHER dang bolt???) My foxbender has handle cranks to slowly torque down the molding parts. Yea, this set, looks ok so far, Ill know tonight when I take it off. I will also try to rebend the Padouk set after I get it flat. Flat Flat Flat. But, I may be shopping for a pre thicknessed mahogany side set. Quote
GoodWood Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) Just checked on my mahogany side, it has equal level of springback! Looks like its major heat blanket tomorrw! It had 2 hours to dry, that is not it. Im just not breaking down the woodfibers or something. Hot iron 320 on top did nothing. This is making me nuts. This one is at least flat though, and its sanded to .078 so its thin. Edited June 15, 2007 by GoodWood Quote
Mattia Posted June 15, 2007 Report Posted June 15, 2007 You may also just be unlucky; some pieces of wood just do not like bending at all; Mahogany's sort of known for occasionally being a major PITA, and Padauk's not the simplest ever. Still, weird. And terribly frustrating :-/ Quote
fryovanni Posted June 15, 2007 Report Posted June 15, 2007 GW- Man, I feel for you. It seems like you are doing everything right. Don't lose faith you will get it to work. You may be onto something with your elevation theory, but I am not familiar with this. Double check your method of checking temp., but if you are getting good steam rolling I am sure your up to temp. If I may make a suggestion on your bender(to make your process easier for you). I bought a vise screw at Rockler for $19.95 for the waist. It may make your side bender simpler for you to handle so you can focus on smooth clamping and monitoring temp. Nothing wrong with yours(just a suggestion to make it go smoother). Keep trying I am sure you will get it to hold . Peace,Rich Quote
GoodWood Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) GW- Man, I feel for you. It seems like you are doing everything right. Don't lose faith you will get it to work. You may be onto something with your elevation theory, but I am not familiar with this. Double check your method of checking temp., but if you are getting good steam rolling I am sure your up to temp. If I may make a suggestion on your bender(to make your process easier for you). I bought a vise screw at Rockler for $19.95 for the waist. It may make your side bender simpler for you to handle so you can focus on smooth clamping and monitoring temp. Nothing wrong with yours(just a suggestion to make it go smoother). Keep trying I am sure you will get it to hold . Peace,Rich Oven baking is 25 degrees higher. So 300 +25= 325, so 330-350 which was where I was at for most of the time, but I was watching for 320 or so, not 340. I think that could be an issue. So I will shoot for 350 highs 340 lows. IT steamed when I applied the top iron mostly. Just not getting hot enough. Nice and flat though, so Im happy about that. And I think my disc sander could end up being the model for a drill press thickness sander also so I can do my own sides and backs tops etc. YOu can get 9 inch sanding discs, so it was a good day in general. =) For what I have, the waist bender works fine, Its the ends I have to hustle on, but mostly it was lack of a screw! The wood was in the air though so I wasnt too worried. That picture is a little jumbled, I didnt want to kink the end down, like my Padouk so I did the cross clamp etc... Edited June 15, 2007 by GoodWood Quote
fryovanni Posted June 15, 2007 Report Posted June 15, 2007 GW- Man, I feel for you. It seems like you are doing everything right. Don't lose faith you will get it to work. You may be onto something with your elevation theory, but I am not familiar with this. Double check your method of checking temp., but if you are getting good steam rolling I am sure your up to temp. If I may make a suggestion on your bender(to make your process easier for you). I bought a vise screw at Rockler for $19.95 for the waist. It may make your side bender simpler for you to handle so you can focus on smooth clamping and monitoring temp. Nothing wrong with yours(just a suggestion to make it go smoother). Keep trying I am sure you will get it to hold . Peace,Rich Oven baking is 25 degrees higher. So 300 +25= 325, so 330-350 which was where I was at for most of the time, but I was watching for 320 or so, not 340. I think that could be an issue. So I will shoot for 350 highs 340 lows. IT steamed when I applied the top iron mostly. Just not getting hot enough. Nice and flat though, so Im happy about that. And I think my disc sander could end up being the model for a drill press thickness sander also so I can do my own sides and backs tops etc. YOu can get 9 inch sanding discs, so it was a good day in general. =) For what I have, the waist bender works fine, Its the ends I have to hustle on, but mostly it was lack of a screw! The wood was in the air though so I wasnt too worried. That picture is a little jumbled, I didnt want to kink the end down, like my Padouk so I did the cross clamp etc... So you were not getting steam until you place additional heat(an iron) on top of the side, but you are reading a temp of 300deg.+ without the iron? I would say you are not getting to 300 deg. if you are not seeing steam. If the wood is getting near 250 you will have steam rolling. Where and what are you using to check your temp.? If you are reading between the blanket and metal you are probably getting a higher temp than the wood. Also does the side hang in the air not touching the heat blanket until you force it to the form? You may need to move the heat blanket to the top to contain the heat. Peace,Rich P.S. FWIW, I have bent sides for Dreds with just heat lamps. I can tell you a heat lamp set up requires you to insulate the top of the wood and the openings in the bender(to a degree) to help contain heat, and even then I have never read higher than 280 degrees with heat lamps(that is the temp of the wood). Quote
GoodWood Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) I think I was reading between the wood and blanket this time, using a digital thermometer, but the top was no where near 250. I think it was 220 which is 200 at altitude. I will go for the higher temps and see what happens. I think this has to be it. What should the top tempreature of the wood be around? Thanks Edited June 15, 2007 by GoodWood Quote
GoodWood Posted June 16, 2007 Author Report Posted June 16, 2007 Ok, I had to reheat on bottom, which seemed to set the rear good, and then on top again. I used wet rags to keep it wet. It went ok, ran it up to 370 by my temp gauge. (Anyone know of a good analog temp gauge for this?) I need at least a quart of water, thats my beginers method. Not just a little soak and aluminum foil just yet. The deal seems to be higher temprature right away, wet wood so its wet. On the first bend, I did actually scortch the wood in a spot a little bit, nothing too bad, and its on the bottom, but I will soak for 15 minutes with wet rages clamped flat from now on. Not enough 'visual' steam, but it did evaporate pretty quick. There also seems to be the old issue of heat blanket evenness, as the top end is now a little springy, not the back. It was clamped in the mold and its a very close fit, 1/8" for the rear, and 1/2" for the top, so Im getting close. I know an iron would touch it up nice, but Im done buying more stuff until one is finished and Im happy with spending what I did on this. I may have to modify the fox mold to fit my mold better also. Not looking forward to that. Endblocks are screamin to get in! I will be doing Kerfing this weekend, (the newness has lost its shine on that for sure.) Next week is the top and tuning!!Wood gods be willing,,, yeal Quote
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