cnc routers

[westhemann]

I am not sure about what you saw, but this is a CAD plan to build a CNC router from scratch and adjust its dimensions to fit YOUR needs.Those bigger more powerful machines are more for industial use I would think and you could prolly use this for your work but I dont know if they are also able to be used with a computer.The plans I got are for 3 axis routing and have 3 small stepmotors in them and a controller so it can be hooked up to a computer or laptop.btw the cost of the smaller one was about $275 for everything accept the 3 stepmotors and electronics for controlling it,that you already have a pc was like taken for granted.

this looks more like a milling machine rather than a duplicarver or cnc

[funkdefino]

Has this already been mentioned?

Cheap CNC Router

[rsera]

thats not cheap

[canuckguitarist]

its not big enough for a body or neck

[funkdefino]

its not big enough for a body or neck

O.K. Yeah your right. I got real excited when I saw it and thought, "OOh.... now that is what I have been lookin' for". I didn't read the full specs I was so excited.

Anywhoo....

I mailed the company and asked if this unit could be enlarged. They said no, but that they are a distributor of another table I might be interested in

Max NC

[rsera]

the one I posted you can make what ever size you like just change the cads and you´re good to go

[funkdefino]

I'm not really comfortable with building one. Tools kind of scare me. Computers don't. This is why I am so interested in CNC.

If your comfortable with building this device and feel you can build one well enough to build guitars why don't you see if you can build one for me? I'll pay you of course. It must be well built though, since I am sure you can not offer a warranty.

I'm sure that the plans forbid you from selling this product, so I will buy the plans from them and commission you to do the work.

Interested?

[rsera]

i´ll think about it

[Reaper]

thats not cheap

For a CNC machine, that's not too bad. They get much worse.

Personally, I would never try to build a CNC machine. I'd much sooner trust someone else to, mostly because I know I'd find a way to **** that thing up.

[funkdefino]

Personally, I would never try to build a CNC machine. I'd much sooner trust someone else to, mostly because I know I'd find a way to **** that thing up.

FEAR THE REAPER!

Pretty scary Reaper! That was your 666th post.

[rob]

eiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

[deadgoodcharlie]

Hello fellow luthiers,just thought I,de throw in my two cents.Making guitar parts through the use of a CNC machine is pretty amazing when you think about it also the tolerences of your parts do become greater.A decent machine,even at a hobbiest level that can deliver will still run you a few thousand.I spent my whole vacation pay on mine and was tickeled pink turning out LP tops and Lp necks.CNC can save you time but you gotta pay for that time saver in the begining.Check out www.durhamrobotics.com and you will see a pic of my machine with a sample test of a LP top in MDF.I think it all depends on how far you wanna go.If it,s one offs your doing forget the CNC route,but if it,s leading to a business venture I feel there,s nothing wrong with it.All in all the machine can get you close but there is always the human factor that finishes off the instrument.Realisticaly you would need to put out about several thousand dollars to get anything decent enough to do the job right.Cheers to all.

[dayvo]

[quote name='deadgoodcharlie' post='265269' date='Apr 23 2006, 02:25 PM']
Hello fellow luthiers,just thought I,de throw in my two cents.Making guitar parts through the use of a CNC machine is pretty amazing when you think about it also the tolerences of your parts do become greater.A decent machine,even at a hobbiest level that can deliver will still run you a few thousand.I spent my whole vacation pay on mine and was tickeled pink turning out LP tops and Lp necks.CNC can save you time but you gotta pay for that time saver in the begining.Check out www.durhamrobotics.com and you will see a pic of my machine with a sample test of a LP top in MDF.I think it all depends on how far you wanna go.If it,s one offs your doing forget the CNC route,but if it,s leading to a business venture I feel there,s nothing wrong with it.All in all the machine can get you close but there is always the human factor that finishes off the instrument.Realisticaly you would need to put out about several thousand dollars to get anything decent enough to do the job right.Cheers to all.
[/quote]

What size cnc machine did you buy and how much was it?
dayvo

[deadgoodcharlie]

[quote name='dayvo' post='265275' date='Apr 22 2006, 10:27 PM']
[quote name='deadgoodcharlie' post='265269' date='Apr 23 2006, 02:25 PM']
Hello fellow luthiers,just thought I,de throw in my two cents.Making guitar parts through the use of a CNC machine is pretty amazing when you think about it also the tolerences of your parts do become greater.A decent machine,even at a hobbiest level that can deliver will still run you a few thousand.I spent my whole vacation pay on mine and was tickeled pink turning out LP tops and Lp necks.CNC can save you time but you gotta pay for that time saver in the begining.Check out www.durhamrobotics.com and you will see a pic of my machine with a sample test of a LP top in MDF.I think it all depends on how far you wanna go.If it,s one offs your doing forget the CNC route,but if it,s leading to a business venture I feel there,s nothing wrong with it.All in all the machine can get you close but there is always the human factor that finishes off the instrument.Realisticaly you would need to put out about several thousand dollars to get anything decent enough to do the job right.Cheers to all.
[/quote]

What size cnc machine did you buy and how much was it?
dayvo
[/quote]Working footprint is X30Y16Z4 cost was approximately $3000.00 C.A.Will be upgrading in the next month to bigger for accoustic tops and backs.

[dayvo]

[quote name='deadgoodcharlie' post='265294' date='Apr 24 2006, 12:42 AM']
[quote name='dayvo' post='265275' date='Apr 22 2006, 10:27 PM']
[quote name='deadgoodcharlie' post='265269' date='Apr 23 2006, 02:25 PM']
Hello fellow luthiers,just thought I,de throw in my two cents.Making guitar parts through the use of a CNC machine is pretty amazing when you think about it also the tolerences of your parts do become greater.A decent machine,even at a hobbiest level that can deliver will still run you a few thousand.I spent my whole vacation pay on mine and was tickeled pink turning out LP tops and Lp necks.CNC can save you time but you gotta pay for that time saver in the begining.Check out www.durhamrobotics.com and you will see a pic of my machine with a sample test of a LP top in MDF.I think it all depends on how far you wanna go.If it,s one offs your doing forget the CNC route,but if it,s leading to a business venture I feel there,s nothing wrong with it.All in all the machine can get you close but there is always the human factor that finishes off the instrument.Realisticaly you would need to put out about several thousand dollars to get anything decent enough to do the job right.Cheers to all.
[/quote]

What size cnc machine did you buy and how much was it?
dayvo
[/quote]Working footprint is X30Y16Z4 cost was approximately $3000.00 C.A.Will be upgrading in the next month to bigger for accoustic tops and backs.
[/quote]

Im still on my first build, but down the track a little I might just get myself one of these as I love tinkering with new things
dayvo

[deadgoodcharlie]

[quote name='dayvo' post='265295' date='Apr 23 2006, 07:19 AM']
[quote name='deadgoodcharlie' post='265294' date='Apr 24 2006, 12:42 AM']
[quote name='dayvo' post='265275' date='Apr 22 2006, 10:27 PM']
[quote name='deadgoodcharlie' post='265269' date='Apr 23 2006, 02:25 PM']
Hello fellow luthiers,just thought I,de throw in my two cents.Making guitar parts through the use of a CNC machine is pretty amazing when you think about it also the tolerences of your parts do become greater.A decent machine,even at a hobbiest level that can deliver will still run you a few thousand.I spent my whole vacation pay on mine and was tickeled pink turning out LP tops and Lp necks.CNC can save you time but you gotta pay for that time saver in the begining.Check out www.durhamrobotics.com and you will see a pic of my machine with a sample test of a LP top in MDF.I think it all depends on how far you wanna go.If it,s one offs your doing forget the CNC route,but if it,s leading to a business venture I feel there,s nothing wrong with it.All in all the machine can get you close but there is always the human factor that finishes off the instrument.Realisticaly you would need to put out about several thousand dollars to get anything decent enough to do the job right.Cheers to all.
[/quote]

What size cnc machine did you buy and how much was it?
dayvo
[/quote]Working footprint is X30Y16Z4 cost was approximately $3000.00 C.A.Will be upgrading in the next month to bigger for accoustic tops and backs.
[/quote]

Im still on my first build, but down the track a little I might just get myself one of these as I love tinkering with new things
dayvo
[/quote]
Hey all,old cnc is gone for a rebirth to a larger machine,and should have it back within four to six weeks and I,ll post some pics of the L.P tops and necks I,ll be doing.Also some chambered backs.The only problem I have is I,ve got a 6-inch jointer planer made by King tools that is taking up space and I would love to offer it to any forum members for a couple hundred bucks providing they can pic it up .I,m just east of Toronto in Whitby.Any takers for an awsome deal,I need the room,cheers.

[jer7440]

Can't really take you up on the jointer, but I would be interested to talk about your LP tops. I'm trying to do this as well.

[deadgoodcharlie]

[quote name='jer7440' post='267293' date='May 5 2006, 08:50 AM']
Can't really take you up on the jointer, but I would be interested to talk about your LP tops. I'm trying to do this as well.
[/quote]
Hey Jer ,I noticed you from the CNC forum,hows it going.What can I do for ya?By the way your machining looks real good.I,m getting my CNC enlarged by the guy who built it,need alittle more in the YandZ,also beefing up the gantry to hold my 1-3/4 horsey Porter Cable,then I,ll have option of 1/4 and 1/2 inch shanks on my bits.Cheers.

[jer7440]

Just curious what you were modeling your carve top and neck with. I used Mastercam. It turned out alright, but It took a lot of fiddling. I just recently picked up some quilt maple for my top, but I haven't even had time to glue it up.

[rlrhett]

[quote name='jer7440' post='267313' date='May 5 2006, 10:01 AM']
Just curious what you were modeling your carve top and neck with. I used Mastercam. It turned out alright, but It took a lot of fiddling. I just recently picked up some quilt maple for my top, but I haven't even had time to glue it up.
[/quote]


Jer7440, I've been waiting to see the followup on your "In Progress" post! Hope you get the time soon.

For what it is worth, talking to people who have gone the CNC route it seems that the expense is in the motors and controllers. There are actually MANY CNC websites that discuss building one --including ones big enough for archtops an necks. They use everything from aluminum u-channel to the wheels off of in-line skates. It seems that it is entirely possible to build high quality, light duty CNC machines for three or four hundred dollars. The problem is that each motor is also three or four hundred dollars (and you need three) and so is the controller. On top of that you need some CAM software to drive the controllers. Finally, you will probably want a CAD program that will do "lofting", and other snazy 3D effects. That I know of, none of the discount or limited versions of CAD programs include this vital tool (please, somebody prove me wrong on this!).

So... It turns out that getting plans is not really the hard part. Building the device is not really that difficult (especially for someone who has built something as complex as a guitar). It is the unique hardware that puts this hoby into the price range of a used Honda Civic.

What this community needs is someone who will put their CNC device up for shared use. Someone who would accept g-code and a hunk of wood and plug it in for a reasonable charge. Any one? Any one?

PS, there is one person on this forum that offers use of his CNC on the "For Sale" section. However, he is very reluctant to do one-off or unique designs. I gather what he really is offering is to mill one of his established designs onto your wood. That's a great service, and I am grateful for it. But I suspect that those of us who dream of CNC want to experiment with our own designs. Otherwise we would build a duplicarver for a couple of hundred bucks!!

[Mattia]

[quote name='rlrhett' post='267368' date='May 6 2006, 06:46 AM']
[quote name='jer7440' post='267313' date='May 5 2006, 10:01 AM']
Just curious what you were modeling your carve top and neck with. I used Mastercam. It turned out alright, but It took a lot of fiddling. I just recently picked up some quilt maple for my top, but I haven't even had time to glue it up.
[/quote]


Jer7440, I've been waiting to see the followup on your "In Progress" post! Hope you get the time soon.

For what it is worth, talking to people who have gone the CNC route it seems that the expense is in the motors and controllers. There are actually MANY CNC websites that discuss building one --including ones big enough for archtops an necks. They use everything from aluminum u-channel to the wheels off of in-line skates. It seems that it is entirely possible to build high quality, light duty CNC machines for three or four hundred dollars. The problem is that each motor is also three or four hundred dollars (and you need three) and so is the controller. On top of that you need some CAM software to drive the controllers. Finally, you will probably want a CAD program that will do "lofting", and other snazy 3D effects. That I know of, none of the discount or limited versions of CAD programs include this vital tool (please, somebody prove me wrong on this!).

So... It turns out that getting plans is not really the hard part. Building the device is not really that difficult (especially for someone who has built something as complex as a guitar). It is the unique hardware that puts this hoby into the price range of a used Honda Civic.

What this community needs is someone who will put their CNC device up for shared use. Someone who would accept g-code and a hunk of wood and plug it in for a reasonable charge. Any one? Any one?

PS, there is one person on this forum that offers use of his CNC on the "For Sale" section. However, he is very reluctant to do one-off or unique designs. I gather what he really is offering is to mill one of his established designs onto your wood. That's a great service, and I am grateful for it. But I suspect that those of us who dream of CNC want to experiment with our own designs. Otherwise we would build a duplicarver for a couple of hundred bucks!!
[/quote]

I still don't get why amateurs would want to experiment with 1-off CNC produced products, really. Not for wood carving type things which are done faster, easier, and just as well (with a bit of skill) by hand. Variations aren't mission-critical in most wooden parts (only a couple joints really have to be tight, a lot of the rest is just shaping). For 1-off complex bodies/necks/etc., it seems like programming the stuff would take as long as it should take to just build the darn thing by hand already. The majority of comments from people who've used CNC for things like Necks, etc. have seemed to indicate that you need to fine-tune after carving them anyway, finish it off, and that certainly also applies to acoustic archtops.

However, if you really want something CNC'd, there's always [url="http://www.emachineshop.com/"]http://www.emachineshop.com/[/url]

[jer7440]

Rlrhett,

Hey man thanks for the interest in my project! Sorry for the big delays. I had a little run in between my mill and a piece of quilt maple. Kinda took the wind (and the budget) out of my sails. I have some new maple for the top, I just need to get goin and make some time. I just need to ask my wife and my kids and my boss "what's really more important here?"

Mattia,

My interest in CNC building comes primarily from my occupation. I program and run these machines all day long. It's a skill set I already have for the most part. Granted most of what I do for work is only 2D. I enjoy messin with this stuff. You are correct though that I have alot of time into the 3D design.

As far a using CNC for one off stuff, this is really common in the prototype industry, at least where I am from. I have a friend who CNCs one off prototypes for a living. He cuts everything from modeling foam and plastic to tool steel. Most of what he does are plastic appearance models for consumer electronics. Things like cell phones and MP3 players. Once you get proficient with 3D modeling software, its a short jump the CNC machine.

[Mattia]

[quote name='jer7440' post='267391' date='May 6 2006, 12:16 PM']
Mattia,

My interest in CNC building comes primarily from my occupation. I program and run these machines all day long. It's a skill set I already have for the most part. Granted most of what I do for work is only 2D. I enjoy messin with this stuff. You are correct though that I have alot of time into the 3D design.

As far a using CNC for one off stuff, this is really common in the prototype industry, at least where I am from. I have a friend who CNCs one off prototypes for a living. He cuts everything from modeling foam and plastic to tool steel. Most of what he does are plastic appearance models for consumer electronics. Things like cell phones and MP3 players. Once you get proficient with 3D modeling software, its a short jump the CNC machine.
[/quote]

Yeah, makes sense. If you've got the machines at your disposal anyway, and you do a lot of CAD as it is, then it's not quite as weird as the countless newbies who come in, never built a guitar in their lives, or maybe got as far as assembling one, and go 'yeah, I'll just learn to program a CNC and build the bestest guitar ever!'. Which, as far as I can tell, is not how it works at all; you still gotta be able to build them without the CNC; it's just a tool. It's a great, accurate tool for a lot of things, and makes sense if you're into production, have to do a lot of basic, repetitive work (that's where, f'r instance, basic-carved CNC necks for larger scale builders are handy; fine tune each one, but the majority of the stuff is done for you). If you just build guitars for fun, unless your idea of fun is in getting the machine to work (to each their own...), I still think you're likely to learn a whole lot more about guitars, woodwork, and lutherie by just building a couple by hand, making your own templates, getting a feel for shapes, etc. Sure, CAD/CAM skills may come in handy in certain future carreers, but they're not a magic bullet approach to making better guitars.

As for prototypes, well, that's a different story, because you go from that prototype to a full production model, often as not, so you may as well do it all in 3D CAD/CAM from the git go. If you're making custom instruments, in many, many cases it's most efficient to use (f'r example) the CNC to make templates, use those for a lot of the work, and do a scant few things with actual CNC.

A look at Taylor, one of the most modern guitar factories in the world, one of the leaders in the CNC field, shows some interesting patterns; some stuff is CNC'd, a LOT of stuff is simply done with good templates, some things with automated carving machines (their neck carver is not a CNC; just a big custom cutting/carving setup that's automatic), and some things by CNC.

I don't dislike CNC. If I had access to it, and I knew/could get things up and running without too much effort, I'd probably use it for some things. But as it stands, it's far too expensive for what little use I'd have for it. I'm happy enough with fine-tuned marine-grade ply master templates, make up a new batch for more or less each guitar I make (I've yet to make the same guitar twice, see...)

[deadgoodcharlie]

I would love to help forum members with thier one off designs providing they can supply the code for the design .If you have something ready let me know,I should have my machine back within six weeks.Whats cool is that before I commit to the wood I do a sample cut in styrofoam to see how well it comes out ,be it a body or neck.For example a L.P. top carved out of maple is about $175.00 plus shipping.That includes setup,wood,routing.Hope I havent broke any forum rules here,just trying to get the overall picture accross

[MzI]

I have gotten into the CNC world recently as we have one at my University, granted im graduating on the 20th of this month, I still have the option of driving back down here everyonce in a while and using the machine. The thing I personally like is the safety factor in relation to using a hand held router. As weird is it sounds I am still uncomfortable using the router and I have been building guitars for the last 4 years. As far as one off guitars, I do one off computer modeling all the time as an architect, though not nearly as detailed as the guitar modeling needs to be fairly accurate as I am finding unless you expect to do alot of handwork afterwards. I have recently cut a pair of flying V's and in all honestly there is no way that I can by hand work as fast as the machine does. When I had it programed correctly, with all the pick up, neck cavity, electronic cavity, and the full body route in all of 10 minutes. Aside from that I still enjoy carving a neck by hand.


MzI