Tuning Issues :'(

[Sugizo]

I just recently rented a older JS signature guitar today, and well being a player of fixed bridged guitars, I had no idea what I was in for.

I decided to retune it because the tuning wasn't that great to begin with. So I loosened the locking nut and began adjusting, and I had no idea that the tension on each string depended on each other... Anyways, fast forward.

I found out how to properly tune it, but when I do so, the floating bridge is being pulled insanely, I didn't change the string gauge or anything though, just loosened the strings and retuned it. I read up that the trem claw needs to be tightened but it's at the point where the trem is completely pressed down... Any help guys? Thanks.

[RGman]

Check this page out: http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/index.htm

[probus]

Could it be, that the guitar was in a different tuning before? It seems very strange that the bridge angle would change if you only did slight adjustments on the tuning, ie retuned to the same pitch. I would check the tuning again with a meter.

You usually want to tune the thicker strings first with floating bridges because then you only need to tune all the strings a couple of times before it settles (for me anyways).

Edited July 17, 2007 by probus

[Sugizo]

Could it be, that the guitar was in a different tuning before? It seems very strange that the bridge angle would change if you only did slight adjustments on the tuning, ie retuned to the same pitch. I would check the tuning again with a meter.

You usually want to tune the thicker strings first with floating bridges because then you only need to tune all the strings a couple of times before it settles (for me anyways).

I was actually ignorant and detuned it all before I retuned it, after that was when I went "ah **** I just remembered it's a floating trem"(remember I'm a fixed bridge person, never dealt with trems before!) Anyways, I figured that if it was in tune before(it was in standard EADGBE tuning) it would tune correctly again, I got the tuning no problem reading rich's site and jemsite, but when it was completely in tune, the trem angle was absurd. I'm not sure what's going on here, can you tune to standard tuning at different tensions? I have no idea, I might just block the trem and play it that way, oh well.

[RGman]

Which way is it angled?

If the back end is too high, the claw needs to be tightened, if it is too low it needs to be loosened.

Edited July 18, 2007 by RGman

[GregP]

And if the claw is tightened as much as it'll go, you might need to throw one or more additional springs in there. It'll also make you work harder to use the trem, but at least you could get the angle under control.

[probus]

And if the claw is tightened as much as it'll go, you might need to throw one or more additional springs in there. It'll also make you work harder to use the trem, but at least you could get the angle under control.

If the tuning was EADGBE before and you took all the strings off, put them back on and retuned to EADGBE (with same gauge strings) you most certainly don't need to put extra springs in there, or in fact, do anything to the springs. The string tension is the same if the tuning pitch is the same. The trem angle should be the same as well.

It sounds like your tuning has changed (drastically) and that means you have to adjust the springs, maybe add one or even do a complete setup. If it's a rented guitar I'd be careful on what you do with it, so the owner won't mind when he gets it back. This all sounds weird though, so you might want to take it back for advice or ask someone who has experience in floating bridges.

[WezV]

It quite often happens to people new to trems because of the way you tune - and you should be able to get it back to how it was without touching the strings or anything - assuming you havnt messed with them already.

if you are used to hardtails i bet you take it in turns with each string tuning them all the way up to pitch - then move on. This doesnt work on trems because as you tighten one you will be loosening others and so on.

What happens to most people is that they tune it all up a string at a time - realise nothing is in tune so go back to the start and start again . . . rinse and repeat till its in tune. the problem with this is that it can lead to the situation you have now or strings start snapping

When i am doing trems i do a rough tune first of all - just to get everything into the right ball park.

Then i tune the low e-string, then the A, then back to the low E, tweak the A and move onto the D, back to the E and A, check the D and so on.

Keeping moving back and forth like that seems to keep things balanced much better.

Obviously if that doesnt get the angle low enough then use the springs but if they were ok before there is no reason they should need playing with now

[WezV]

robbed this from the link rg posted

"There is a trick to it at this stage. With both non-tremolo and 'vintage' tremolo guitars you can bring each string to pitch independently of the other strings. This is not so with a floating tremolo! Though each saddle is separate from the others, they are all mounted together on a single, large plate. In order to get your strings evenly in tune, you will need to tune in "stages". What we mean by this is this: start with the low E string. Turn the tuner until the string is no longer slack, and then move on to the A string. Do this with all the strings. Remember, you're not trying to achieve any type of tuning yet - you're just pulling up all the slack. After this is done, begin with the low E again, and turn the tuner about half a turn, then move to the A string. Do this to all the strings. Then repeat it. Check yourself with a tuner. Eventually, you will get close to being in tune. When everything is close, go ahead and finesse your tuners so they are in tune. *Why is this lengthy process necessary,* you might ask, *and why can't I just tune normally?* Good question! The answer is that attempting to tune "normally" will result in a tremolo unit that has pulled up from the body to such an extent that the action is now about half an inch high, and totally unplayable. Doing it this way will keep your action low and tremolo in the right place."

slightly different to mine

, now is your trem sticking up away from the body at its back edgeis it going the otherway

[GregP]

And if the claw is tightened as much as it'll go, you might need to throw one or more additional springs in there. It'll also make you work harder to use the trem, but at least you could get the angle under control.

If the tuning was EADGBE before and you took all the strings off, put them back on and retuned to EADGBE (with same gauge strings) you most certainly don't need to put extra springs in there, or in fact, do anything to the springs. The string tension is the same if the tuning pitch is the same. The trem angle should be the same as well.

Uh-huh. My post supplemented the ones above that suggested tightening the claw if needed.

It sounds like your tuning has changed (drastically) and that means you have to adjust the springs, maybe add one or even do a complete setup. If it's a rented guitar I'd be careful on what you do with it, so the owner won't mind when he gets it back. This all sounds weird though, so you might want to take it back for advice or ask someone who has experience in floating bridges.

To summarize: "Greg, if he hasn't changed his tuning, he shouldn't need to adjust his springs. On the other hand, it sounds like he HAS adjusted his tuning, in which case he will need to adjust the springs possibly as part of a complete setup."

So, since you're indicating that he might need to adjust his springs... my advice would be...

"If that turns out to be the case, and you find that while adjusting the springs, you can't tighten the claw any more, you also have the option of adding additional springs to increase tension on the trem block."

Around and around she goes....