dousty Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Hi guys. I'm not a builder but I do like to tinker with guitars. I am hoping one of you wise people could offer me some advice. Earlier this year I bought a "strat" from a shop in the USA (I'm Australian). It's pretty hard to get a good apprasial over then net but it looked sound. Anyway, once I got it here and gave it a good setup it played fairly well. My problem though is the high sliping off the fret board. It seems to me that the frets have too greater a chamfer un them and that makes the string slid off the board. The low E seems to be spaced the same distance from the edge of the board but I dont have the same trouble using it. IThat may well have to do with the different way in which that string is played. Here are a few pics that may help the description. My question is...what do I do to fix it? I'm guessing a re-cut nut that takes the string way from the edge won;t work and that leaves a re-fret. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dousty Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dousty Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubber314chicken Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 you could have it re-fretted, and have the edges beveled better (could be a diy job), or make a new nut with the strings closer together. which you do is up to you, but I think by the 2nd picture you need a smaller string spread at the nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dousty Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 you could have it re-fretted, and have the edges beveled better (could be a diy job), or make a new nut with the strings closer together. which you do is up to you, but I think by the 2nd picture you need a smaller string spread at the nut. Cool thx for the advice. A new nut would be my prefered option for simplicity lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeppelinchld Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 on the nut the two e strings looked significantly farther away from the other strings compared to how the rest of the strings are spaced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 (edited) I would wait for a few more responses. There are a number of people here that will see right off what the problem is. My guess is the nut, everything about it looks off. The low E side looks like it hangs off the neck, the spacing looks messed up, ect. Also, another reason I think it might be the nut is the spacing between the high e and edge of fretboard isn't consistant across the whole neck. It looks alright near the bridge, but up at the nut seems to close to the edge. Should be even throughout. Anyhow, again wait for some more responses before tackling anything, there are some excellent luthiers here that can help you out. Best of luck. J Edited July 21, 2007 by jmrentis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dousty Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 on the nut the two e strings looked significantly farther away from the other strings compared to how the rest of the strings are spaced The spacing is very close to 7mm between all slots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dousty Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I would wait for a few more responses. There are a number of people here that see right off what the problem is. My guess is the nut, everything about it look off. The low E side looks like it hangs off the neck, the spacing looks messed up, ect. Also, another reason I think it might be the nut is the spacing between the high e and edge of fretboard isn't consistant across the whole neck. It looks alright near the bridge, but up at the nut seems to close to the edge. Should be even throughout. Anyhow, again wait for some more responses before tackling anything, there are some excellent luthiers here that can help you out. Best of luck. J Thanks for the response. I think your right, I will wait untill I get a few more opinions although I agree with most of whats been said so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 There are a few things that can be done. The neck can be “shifted” in the neck pocket. Loosen the screws and pull the neck against the upper horn (no muscles involved please) and retighten the screws. Any difference? Substitute the nut with one that is tighter spaced and maybe a little offset (the high E have a greater distance from the board edge compared to the low E). Slotting it yourself? I suggest this tool to lay out the slot spacing: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Measurin...acing_Rule.html If this isn’t enough you have to refret it and put attention to the fret bevelling angle. It shouldn’t be (personal opinion, beware) more than about 30 degrees. It can be even less to create more “playing area” but the fret ends might feel a bit pointy or sharp to the hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acousticraft Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I cant tell from the photos but I am assuming the fret board edge is straight when you sight down it. From what I can see the string looks OK as far as distance from the finger board edge, should be about 3mm. Is it slipping off when you are doing bends or just normal playing? If some of the fret edges have been excessively bevelled back that can cause the problem as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 (edited) There was a refret I saw on here recently that had done a refret on a gibson that had that binding nub at the ends of the frets and the neck was refretted to make more room for the string before it slipped off, which I thought was a good thing. These frets look maybe a tad worn, but not super bad or anything. I was curious to hear other opinions. It seems like it would be worth trying to make a new nut, instead of refretting the entire neck, but that could just be a temp. fix if its actually the frets that are the problem. Doing the frets seems like it would help, but they just didn't look bad enough to be the sole cause, who knows though. To me that nut still looks off a bit. Look at the last two pics. The last one shows the high e serisouly sitting right on the edge of the bevel, even without bending I bet that thing slides off. Now look at the pic before it which shows the bottom of the neck, you can see the distance here between the bevel and string, much more space, probably much easier to play without slipping off. The bevel looks tighter there, less wear, but honestly I think the slot is just a tad off to the right on the high e. Making it edge closer to the edge as the string goes up, in other words it's not parallel to the edge. And the picture is around the 12-15th fret, imagine how much it would have to be off to create that distance in 10 frets or less. Considering how bad it is, I'd imagine both the frets and nut create the problem, I would just personaly want to try the nut first to see if it solved my problem, before tackling a refret. Anyhow, just a thought, check those pics to make sure my eyes aren't just glitching on me. Edited July 21, 2007 by jmrentis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Last ditch effort : Assuming it has a stock type bridge, you could drill three holes in the bridge plate, which would allow 3 piece tele saddles to be installed, then you could narrow the string spacing, controlling the string positions with a shallow groove filed in the saddles to locate the string positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dousty Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Thanks for the replies guys!! Standard 6 point trem. If you look at the 22nd fret you will see the least amount of bevel out of the entire frets. I would like to think that a nut would solve the problem but after taking a look at my other "decent" guitars (which one is an ESP Eclipse CTM-1) I'd have to say there is way too much of a bevel cut into the rest of the frets. There is a luither here in Australia called Charles Cilia but damned if I can get his contact details! Thanks for the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I think all possibilities have been said, but I agree in that the excessive bevelling can only be remedied by refretting (big job, but the correct way to restore it to 100%) or compounding the issue by then having to cut a new nut to work out the issue caused by the bevelling. Which is the lesser of the two evils is up to you :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I think all possibilities have been said, but I agree in that the excessive bevelling can only be remedied by refretting (big job, but the correct way to restore it to 100%) or compounding the issue by then having to cut a new nut to work out the issue caused by the bevelling. Which is the lesser of the two evils is up to you :-D There's refretting, and then there's refretting. One possibility would be removing the frets, then bumping them up a couple of frets (so that the original fret 3 is now fret 1, etc.). Then file the edges down again, and there you go--the proper bevel. You'd have to find a bit of extra wire for the 21st and 22nd frets, but I'm sure there are some other Aussies here who can help you out with that. If not, I have plenty here, just send me a PM. It helps to have a fret-pulling tool, but they're easy enough to make. Is this an Asian-built copy? Someone's project guitar? It'd be very helpful for us to know exactly what kind of guitar this is. Taking it to a luthier is going to turn this bargain into a luxury item. It's possible you could replace the bridge too-- use the narrower MIM or Squier spec--there's a significant difference. That and a new nut should have you in the safe zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertbart Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 If it were my guitar I'd refret it and leave the frets nearly 90 degrees to the edge of the fretboard. Then slightly hit the ends with a crowning file and then take a 3 corner file and hit the corners of the crown edge on the edge on either side. Then hit it with 400 grit and then 600 grit paper. Then four ought steel wool. The fret ends will appear to be balled or round. (Similiar to the way old Martins were fretted) Then dremel the frets with a felt wheel and red rouge polish paying particular attention to the very ends. When playing with proper hand position you will not even notice the fret ends and you'll gain plenty of fret real estate, perhaps an eight inch overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Looks like that's not the original nut. The closeup seems to show that it's protruding a significant amount from the bass side of the fretboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sulzer Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Yea, and the problem looks worst at the nut end. So replace the nut. If I wanted to find out if i would be happy with a new nut, I would tape off near the nut and fill the #1 e slot with a very hard epoxy mixed with silica power to prevent it from flowing. Then I would carefully cut a new slot displaced a bit. This would be a temporary solution that would neither last nor sound so great., but you could see if the guitar would play better. Do not try this unless you know what you are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dousty Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 It was put together and bought from a guy called Vince Sansevere at Huntington Guitars in Coneticut. Body and neck are Allparts products. The excessive beveling is a problem the entire length of the neck apart from the 22nd fret. It was a good price because to buy the guitars in parts here is Aus would cost well over $1k Aus. I paid $500 US for it. Emg 81, Afterburner and Grovers would total over $500 alone. Pity about the frets Here's a shot of the trem and a pic of the guitar. Thanks for the help guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian d Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 dousty, I have to say that I doubt a new nut will help. the effect of moving the string in a mm at the nut will only have about half a mm effect at the 12th fret and even less as you get towards the 20th. I don't think it will have a significant effect until you move the high e notch way toward the bass. Before you take out the nut, you can check what the effect will be. loosen the string just enough to take it out of the notch and move it to where you think it should be. You'll be able to see if the string moves enough away from the bevel. I think you're looking at a fret job here. good luck, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 The neck can be “shifted” in the neck pocket. Loosen the screws and pull the neck against the upper horn (no muscles involved please) and retighten the screws. That should do the trick! I've had to do this to my strat. and now it's perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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