Making Wizard Thin Necks

[TheGreatnessOfP]

Hi, inspired by this forum I will be beggining a guitar build on my return to the UK (currently travelling south America).

I´ve played many guitars and I love wizard necks (RG550 from 89 is my favourite), their thinness and finish.

Will I have trouble making a neck similar to this?

There are 2 issues that I can think of:

Truss rod - I know their necks are single action truss: what disadvantages does this have?

(as a side note www.blackmachine.com make guitars with very thin necks using slimmer gotoh 2-way rods)

Materials - I want to use wenge for the neck if I can get my dirty little hands on it. Then I would add carbon fiber strips to reinforce. Would this be sufficient, could I even do without reinforcements?

How does a non-reinforced neck with filets/laminated compare? Is this a better option?

Thanks for reading, I´ll get on with a photo diary as soona s supplies arrive.

Cheers, Rob

[WezV]

wenge is a good stiff neck wood that will work very well for necks without the extra reinforcment but i would include some cf bars anyway - always wise to have extra insurance just in case. It also seems to be one of the woods that craft supplies have in stock most of the time

You can use a two way truss rod like the gotoh one, especially if you have the large bulky adjustment at the heel rather than at the headstock. I would avoid something like the stew-mac hotrods for this because they wouldnt leave you much room to play with. Personally i would use a two-way rather than single action - you never know when you will want it to go the otherway

MAking sure you have the fretboard quite thin will also you get the required thinness to the neck, have it around 4-5mm thick rather than 6-7mm

[low end fuzz]

wizard necks are made out of bubinga arnt they?

i htink i heard that; and i would trust wenge over bubinga, and i see a lot more 'perfect' staight wenge than bubing

[chennik]

Most of the wizard necks are actually made of maple, though lately Ibanez has been making multi-laminate necks (including bubinga and walnut and maybe a few other woods), particularly for neck-thru guitars. Alot of these though, are the wizard II, which is thicker and about comparable to other manufacturers 'slim profile' necks. I have an 87 rg550 and a buddy of mine has an 89, both of which have one piece, flat-sawn wizard necks, and I do find it odd that they did not use quartersawn for these, given the additional stability that it would have imparted. Personally, I think a wizard neck made up of maple and wenge laminates would look killer, and the multiple laminates would add to the stability, though the only concern I would have would be ensuring the truss rod fits into the center laminate entirely, otherwise the you may not have enough glue joint surface, given the fact that the truss rod eats up so much of the profile on a neck this thin. I wouldnt want the truss rod popping out the back of the neck or cracking a glue joint, but I guess this might happen just as well on the wood itself anyhow.

[westhemann]

I have a maple wizard neck...I prefer the wizard II

But the major component of the wizard is the thinner fretboard....do not rearmount the locking nut(topmount it)and incorporate a whachacallit...I can't think of the word for some reason...the lump where the headstock meets the neck that increases the strength of that weakest area...

It will not get in the way if you make it right and it really helps

[ToneMonkey]

volute?

[westhemann]

there ya go...thanks

for the life of me I can't remember your old net handle...

[ToneMonkey]

Hotrock?

[Hector]

There are 2 issues that I can think of:

Truss rod - I know their necks are single action truss: what disadvantages does this have?

(as a side note www.blackmachine.com make guitars with very thin necks using slimmer gotoh 2-way rods)

Materials - I want to use wenge for the neck if I can get my dirty little hands on it. Then I would add carbon fiber strips to reinforce. Would this be sufficient, could I even do without reinforcements?

How does a non-reinforced neck with filets/laminated compare? Is this a better option?

Thanks for reading, I´ll get on with a photo diary as soona s supplies arrive.

Cheers, Rob

/i think the wenge neck would be sufficient. even without the CF strips. in my opinion if you're using a single action truss rod, don't add the CF strips. the wenge should be enough

[westhemann]

Hotrock?

that's it...back in the days of the slam thread.

[ToneMonkey]

They were good times you turd lipped, fish feltching, pigeon worrier

[thegarehanman]

Wizard necks really aren't that thin, at least they're not at the thresh hold of thin. I would use carbon fiber rods and a two way truss rod. Either keep your fretboard thin (probably 3/16" max) or route a slot in the bottom of a thicker fretboard to allow the trussrod to sit inside the fretboard a bit. When I don't need the added strength that carbon fiber provides, I still use it in order to make the neck more stable and consistent despite climate changes and wood movement. I always use two 1/8"x3/8" rods. On necks that need extra strength, I put the cf rods in so that the 1/8" surface is parrallel to the surface of the fretboard. On necks that just need a bit more stability, I install the cf rods in so that the 3/8" surface is parrallel to the surface of the fretboard. The second situation uses the same amount of cf in any given neck, but the moment of inertia in the direction of the force applied by the strings is less, so it doesn't add quite as much stiffness to the neck as installing the cf rods the other way would.

Also, if a neck is too thin to install the cf rods in the first way I described, the second way is a great alternative. I plan to do this on two necks [with wizard I dimensions] that I'll be making for a customer's guitar.

peace,

russ

[westhemann]

They were good times you turd lipped, fish feltching, pigeon worrier

yes they were....and if my pigeons are worried,Its only because they don't understand why you fondle them whilst you attach the notes to their legs when you write me....

[Masina]

Go on the warmoth website, this tells advantages and disadvantages of single action truss rods.

[Jorge Fernandez]

Wizard necks really aren't that thin, at least they're not at the thresh hold of thin. I would use carbon fiber rods and a two way truss rod. Either keep your fretboard thin (probably 3/16" max) or route a slot in the bottom of a thicker fretboard to allow the trussrod to sit inside the fretboard a bit.

Hi,

Russ, I'm interested routing a slot in the fingerboard to reduce the thickness of the neck. How thick has to

be the fingerboard ? and the deep of the channel? what do you recommend. Is there any link to some

neck built this way?

Thanks!

[thegarehanman]

I don't have any links for you, but the dimensions are all pretty self-explanatory. With a double-action type rod (I prefer LMII.com's 3/8" thick double action rod), you need about 1/8" of wood minimum behind it. So you have 1/8" of wood, 3/8" of rod, leaving you with 1/4" thickness for the fretboard. Now I personally like to have a little bit more material behind my truss rods, so I go with a 3/16" thick fretboard and that gives me 3/16" of wood behind the truss rod. If you want to route a slot in the fretboard to accomodate some of the truss rod, then just fiddle with those dimensions. However, the same principle applies, don't venture below 1/8" of fretboard where your truss rod lies or you may tear through the fretboard when adjusting the truss rod. Actually, because of fret slots, I wouldn't go thinner than 3/16" on the fretboard where the truss rod is.

peace,

russ

[Hey]

volute

How necessary is a volute if the truss rod adjustment is on the body side of the neck?

[crimson guitars]

Making super thin necks doesn't really need all this carbon fibre stuff etc.. a low profile two-way truss rod.. allpartsuk are a great suppler, and multi-laminate contruction are all you need. Ibanez tend to use three 20mm sections of maple with a thin veneer between them.. I once made five necks with different headstock joints and the only one that survived me jumping on it was the multi-laminate.. the 15 degree angled headstock bent flat to the floor and then bent right back again.. this was made out of three mahogany strips with maple stringers.. Have fun..

[Mattia]

CF certainly isn't essential, but I do like what it does for resonance and stiffness. There's an audible difference before routing for CF bars and after gluing said CF in place, in terms of tap tone. Millions of necks out there without it, but I think it's cheap insurance, I like what the necks sound like, so....yeah.

[ryanb]

If you are going to build necks of Wizard I size or thinner, I would definitely use the CF rods. Yes, mult-laminate necks are stronger than single-piece necks, but even laminated necks move and warp over time. Ibanez learned that the hard way with the original Wizard I necks, and they use laminates and reinforcing with the current reissue Wizards for that reason. It's cheap insurance, and will keep the neck more stable over time if nothing else.

[WezV]

I once made five necks with different headstock joints and the only one that survived me jumping on it was the multi-laminate.

now thats the kind of real life brainiac science i can deal with Even if it isnt stictly a fair test!!

i tend to favour multi lams with the addition of a two way rod and CF bars. Cf bars may not be essential but i agree with Mattia about possible tonal benefits as well as the added insurance... wood is just a bit unpredictable afterall - no matter how good you get at reading grain

[orgmorg]

What were the other four neck joints?

[Jorge Fernandez]

A two laminated mahogany neck could be considered as a multilaminated neck ?

I'm planning building a thin neck with two mahogany strips, a LMII double action

rod and CF reinforcements. The headstock will be 13 degrees.

Any link to know how the strips has to be distributed in a multilaminated neck

to maximize the strenght and stability?

Thanks!

Edited August 23, 2007 by Jorge Fernandez

[thegarehanman]

In my experience, the necks I've played that had cf rods in them seemed to have fewer dead spots (or had dead spots less often) than necks without them. While the cf rods might not be a neccessity, have some bafoon leave two guitars in his trunk one hot afternoon, one with cf rods and one without. Then see if you're not sold on cf rods. They really do wonders for a neck's elastic memory.