Question About Fretted/fretless Hybrid Bass

[SLushe]

I had this idea, and I've seen it done before but I would just like to know if its possible and any problems that might come up with it..

If I got a fretted bass, and took off all the frets from 12th fret to 21st fret. so the 2nd octave would be fretless, to get that jazzy soloing sound, while the first half is fretted to still stay with the rock bass sound.. Would this work well? Anyone heard of this / experimented with it?

[tim_ado]

yeah i was thinkin of this a bit ago

if you've seen it done before on a respected brand (ie not home done)the its obviously possible

[WezV]

the obvious problem is setting the action, since the action will be higher on the unfretted portion of the neck to allow for the frets elsewhere. Shouldnt be too much of a problem though

[metalwarrior]

I have seen Cronos from Venom with frets only on half the fingerboard. He doesn't play jazz.

[j. pierce]

I always find it interesting that folks want the combination thing with the fretless portion at the top of the neck - for me, all the stuff that's cool about fretless happens at the bottom end.

I guess I can kind of understand with your description, now.

[low end fuzz]

but if you put all the frets at the high end of the board all your bottm notes would be a 12th fret;

im partial to the exetended D & G past the 24 fret being fretless with the 'stairway' surpassing

(i dont know how to explain myself; but that sounds really gothic)

[SLushe]

I just bought a MTD 5 kingston bass.. so its possible to do this theory still.. just not sure if I wanna take a chance of ruining a lovely bass to do it. but maybe in 3-4 months if I get bored with it, I'll attempt it.

[WezV]

yeah its perfectly possible. but dont rely on the fret lines too much. because of the frets on half the neck the action will be higher than is usual on a fretless so if you fret directly on the lines it will probably sound out of tune. but thats the fun of fretless anyway, you got to start using your ears!!!

[j. pierce]

but if you put all the frets at the high end of the board all your bottm notes would be a 12th fret;

Duh. That of course never occured to me (I guess mostly because I had never thought about building a hybrid.) I suppose if you put a "shelf" in, so the top of the frets at the fretted section where the same height as the unfretted board at the bottom end, it might work. I guess I wasn't really recommending an alternate approach, just stating why I never understood hybrids - I still think I prefer fretless for lower-range work, but I appreciate Slushe's description of what he's shooting for - at least now I understand (even if it's not what I would want) why someone would go for such a creation.

Thinking about the way I play, I'm now almost thinking working with frets that don't cross the whole distance of the board, (which might be what you're alluding to with your "stairway" comment?) leaving the lowest string unfretted would be the way to go. At least, for me, since I'm obviously looking for a different sound than Slushe. Perhaps a five or six string bass with the extra string or strings being unfretted duplicates of your lowest strings. (Great, now I've got another silly idea to add to the list of things I'd like to try)

[crimson guitars]

I've just been asked to build a custom 8 string fretted/fretless hybrid bass, difference is he only want the frets to go accross half the fingerboard width ways.. this will mean on the treble strings we'll be able to have a suitable action for fretless playing.. in your case this would probablt be the safesr route.. removing the original frets shouldn't be too hard and then add new fret wire over just half the fingerboard.. fill the rest of the slot with maple or epoxy and you're singing.. and if you dont like it it's not a permanent mod.. refrets after all are more common than any other repair! Here's a link to the 7 string bass that the new eight string will be based on.. except for the fretting thing of course! 05Ric Signature Bass

[low end fuzz]

i would do that like doing frets w/binding;

nip off the tang at the end put em in and file them down smooth in the middle of the fb

id fill the rest of the slot w/ veneer or binding; that would look hot

[Mattia]

Seriously, I don't see the issue. All this calls for is some slightly creative fingerboard geometry, namely making sure the playing surface is level. ie, that the fretless surface is in line with the fretted surface. This is almost trivially simple to do if you radius on a router jig, and only mildly annoying in terms of sanding. Levelling is done as it's always done.

[crimson guitars]

I can see why you'd think the freless section should be level with the fretted, but I'm not convinced.. the player of such an idiosyncratic guitar will expect it to feel a little different than standard and that's all it would be.. a little different? No? If you radiused the 'board using a flatter radius on the fretless side you'd also come up with a similar effect of smothing over the cross-over between fretted and fretless..?

[GregP]

If you want the lower end (frets 1-12 or whatever) fretless (the opposite of the original poster), you'd want the fretless surface level with the frets. The other way around, as per the original idea, and it isn't as necessary, IMO, though it would depend a bit on fret height.

[WezV]

nah fret height isnt important that way round (i.e fretted 1-12, fretless the rest), you just have to use your ears a bit because the action will be higher than you would normally go for on a fretless and you will need to compensate as you play - - treat the fretlines as a guide but dont rely on them and it will work fine.

i did play a bass last year that was fretless on the E and A strings and fretted on the D and G - but it was a home conversion where someone had filed down the frets under the E/A section so just the tangs remained in the slots. Tbh the hadnt done a bad job except for the fact the idea of leaving the tangs in is inherently flawed - its still played badly though as the tangs had started to poke out as you would expect and ruined the fretless side.

No reason it cant be done properly though

[GregP]

[edit to update information for bass rather than guitar. :]

That's not the full picture, though. Assuming 4-string standard-tuned bass: let's say you want to 'fret' an G# on the high string or an F on the low string. That's where the 13th fret would be. If you have jumbo frets, pressing the string all the way down to the wood isn't going to necessarily be as easy as you imagine, depending on fret height and string guage. And that little "break angle" will mean that you're pulling the string sharp compared to where the 13th fret would be, making the amount of wiggle room less and the amount of pressure required even greater. I'm thinking more of the pressure than the wiggle room. That's not going to be quite as easy in practice as it is in theory. Now imagine doing this with big thick bass strings.

I am only--PURELY--going on how I imagine it... it might be completely a non-issue after all. But it's at least enough of a niggle in the back of the mind that I'd want to test it out. And it's at least enough of a thought to acknowledge that the "fretless area" as a practical entity isn't the same as the "fretless area" as a purely theoretical one.

[WezV]

yeah thats about right, fret height is more of a factor than i was making out in my last post but it still comes down to using you ears. Like you say, freting a note will take more effort but thats one of the compromises of this idea that you cant get past without having small frets or a stepped fretboard.

lets assume you would set the intonation at the 12th fret as usual. all your fretted notes are nice and in tune but if you fret on the lines of the fretless (assuming the neck has lines where the frets would have been) the note will be sharp because of how far you are having to push it, easy to compensate for by fretting a little behind the line - hard to get spot on though and would take a bit of practice. you can still use big chunky frets if you want but you will have to compensate for it as you play

This is just the joy of fretless anyway, its just gonna be highlighted slightly on a board like this - even with fretlines you have to use your ears because there is a bit of a visual illusion that makes 'fretting on the line' easier said that done - this effect is more pronouced when playing something like a lap-steel. all to do with the angle you are looking at your fretting hand on and the distance between the fretboard and your finger and all those straight lines that are involved

i find fretlesses work best with a nice low action for the reasons you say - but that just wouldnt be practical on a half fretted board

Us fretted folk are far to used to relying on our frets to tell us the right note - that isnt possible on a fretless and the lines are just a guide to the note

[SLushe]

im not worried about playing by ear, thats how i normally play anyways since i gotta switch back and forth between so many tunings.. the thing im worried about is how difficult it will be fretting a note, since the action on the fretless part is gonna be massive.. but I dont think i'll attempt it for at least another 5 months.. so ill have some time to try out a full-fretless and experiment with making the action really high and see how difficult it is to play on it.