Humbuckers That Sound Good Split

[fookgub]

I've been thinking recently about how PAF style humbuckers generally sound weak in single coil mode. I had an idea: use coil taps. Say a traditional-style humbucker measures about 9k Ohms... why not wind each coil to about 7k, and include a 4.5k tap? Then the 4.5k taps would be used in series for humbucking mode, and the full 7k coils coil be used in single coil mode.

Surely I can't be the first person to think of this. Is anyone aware of a commercial pickup like this? Is there some reason why no one has popularized this idea?

[GregP]

beats me.

Swineshead pickups out of the UK has a humbucker that's 2 single-coils side-by-side:

http://www.swinesheadpickups.co.uk/amp.shtml

[soapbarstrat]

My old Seymour catalogs mention some pickups being tapped. I guess the JB is around 13K, but it did a fine job being split to a single coil, when i used to use one.

[GregP]

I find the JB too bright in the bridge position when tapped. But if bright is your thang, it'll do the trick.

[prs man]

duncan 59 neck with a jb in the bridge split sounds good.

[WezV]

beats me.

Swineshead pickups out of the UK has a humbucker that's 2 single-coils side-by-side:

http://www.swinesheadpickups.co.uk/amp.shtml

definately a good choice for splitting. I wouldnt quite call them two single coils (like they claim) because the bobbins are still humbucker sized but the alnico magnet polepieces will get you as close to a single coil sound as you can get on a humbucker pickup. It seems to be one of the most sensible approaches to getting a good split sound but obviously the humbucker tones are compromised to get it!

[GregP]

Agreed that it won't be absolutely 100% identical to a strat single-coil-- but there are other single-coil sounds! Teles come to mind. And I'm not sure that the humbucker tone has to be "compromised," per se-- there's no way it'll sound like a PAF, but the articulated sound might be the welcome change from the norm that many people crave.

[WezV]

My point is that there is always a compromise. If you take a humbucker design and adapt it to get a better split tone you will invariably have to compromise some other element of the design. it will never sound exactly like the original humbucker design did - and obviously the split setting will never sound exactly like a single coil does either.

I dont think this is necissarily a bad thing, it may be the perfect way to find the 'new sound' - but it is without a doubt different to the things its trying to emulate.

for somebody who really loved there humbucker tones but wanted split sounds as well the swineshead AMP would not be the way to go - infact i would give them a series/parallel switch instead.

For somebody that wanted the best of both worlds the AMP might be a better solution, its close to both but the same as neither

[fookgub]

My point is that there is always a compromise. If you take a humbucker design and adapt it to get a better split tone you will invariably have to compromise some other element of the design. it will never sound exactly like the original humbucker design did - and obviously the split setting will never sound exactly like a single coil does either.

... which is why I suggested the coil taps in the first place. The idea is that there is room on a PAF-style bobbin for more turns of wire, so why not add that wire for single coil use? The humbucking mode would still sound essentially the same (via the coil taps), but the single coil mode would be louder and beefier. I'm not suggesting a way to emulate a Strat pickup per se... just a way to "improve" the single coil sound of a humbucker.

I had never heard of Swineshead before (thanks Greg & Wes), but Rio Grande also makes a humbucker that is essentially two single coils side by side. I've also tried this idea in a cheapo strat by moving the middle pickup right next to the bridge pickup and wiring it for series/parallel/split operation. The humbucker sounds were decent, and the singles were good, but it still suffered from one of my main gripes about split humbuckers -- wildly different volume levels.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. It looks like no one is currently making anything like this. Manufacturers probably regard it as too specialized to mass market, and I doubt it would work as well with overwound pickups (which seem to comprise the bulk of aftermarket pickups sales). I would like to try this idea out for myself one day, but I have several more instruments to build before I can get back to work on electronics.

[SwedishLuthier]

Duncan used to make a HB called Stag Mag (maybe still does) made from essentially two HB bobbins with alnico rod magnates (like a SC). The sound in HB mode sucked, as did the HB sound. A tapped coils HB (in comparison to split coils) will not give you a SC sound at all. The sound will be that of an underwound humbucker. More like a Gretsch type of HB sound. Think Filtertrons. As a matter of fact I have recently wound a set of HBs to a lower turn count. They are going to get some 500-1000 turns more per coil and the tapping option to be able to go from their current, very Gretschy sound to something more PAF-like.

As it all is a compromise a HB in parallel is the best option. Similar output as a HB and a sound that is something like 40% HB and 60% SC.

Edited August 24, 2007 by SwedishLuthier

[fookgub]

Duncan used to make a HB called Stag Mag (maybe still does) made from essentially two HB bobbins with alnico rod magnates (like a SC). The sound in HB mode sucked, as did the HB sound. A tapped coils HB (in comparison to split coils) will not give you a SC sound at all. The sound will be that of an underwound humbucker. More like a Gretsch type of HB sound. Think Filtertrons. As a matter of fact I have recently wound a set of HBs to a lower turn count. They are going to get some 500-1000 turns more per coil and the tapping option to be able to go from their current, very Gretschy sound to something more PAF-like.

As it all is a compromise a HB in parallel is the best option. Similar output as a HB and a sound that is something like 40% HB and 60% SC.

Interesting... Seymour Duncan still makes and sells that pickup, but I can't find enough specs to see if it works on the same idea I had. Note that I'm not suggesting a tapped humbucker for single coil sounds. My idea is to start with a PAF-style humbucker, then add more windings purely for single coil (split) mode. The normal HB sounds would be with the coils tapped and wired in series, and the split sounds would use the full coil.

[GregP]

Lindy Fralin unbucker has mismatched coils. Consequently, they don't buck the hum as completely as a true humbucker. But the idea is to have increased tonal options available as the tradeoff.

[SwedishLuthier]

Note that I'm not suggesting a tapped humbucker for single coil sounds. My idea is to start with a PAF-style humbucker, then add more windings purely for single coil (split) mode. The normal HB sounds would be with the coils tapped and wired in series, and the split sounds would use the full coil.

AAAAHAAA!!! Finally I think I got what you mean fookgub. You mean that you add winding to ONE of the coils and to use the combined two windings on that bobbin for a SC sound? Not involving the other coil/bobbin at all for the SC sound? Man I’m slow sometimes…

Now THAT is something I have never seen done. The idea is very interesting. The only problem might be to fit enough wire to one of the bobbins after you have done the traditional PAF amount of windings. I would probably try to make my own bobbins to be able to fit more wire on the one for the SC sound. It will also enhance the similarities with the strat pickup, sound vice. I might have to try it. Does this mean I will have to pay you royalties to wind pickups like that?

Don’t bother to look at the Stag Mags. They are two side by side SCs, one RWRP functioning together as a HB. I tried them but the Duncan Jazz got me a better split sound than the stag mag, either in parallel or in single mode.

[GregP]

Ahhhh... I get it now.

You could do that-- set it up as a tapped humbucker (true "tapping," not just coil splitting). The PRS 513 uses this idea to a certain degree, though its approach is a bit different than what you prescribe. You would have the equivalent of the 513's "half power humbucker" along with its split coil "single coil" sound. You wouldn't have the "full power humbucker" mode that the 513 has. There have been discussions here about emulating the 513 approach using standard wiring (as opposed to PRS's circuit-board approach) and the consensus seems to be that it could be done. And if you want to cut down the number of switching options and only use the ones you actually care about, you'd save yourself a bit of wiring in the rat's nest to boot.

I don't know any manufacturers that are currently making "true" coil tapped pickups right now, but you could get one custom-wound or look into DIY.

Greg

[soapbarstrat]

A lady in Spitzer music in Frisco told me back in '84 that Kirk Hammett was using the Duncan Stag-Mag. That made me really not want that pickup.

[soapbarstrat]

found an old Duncan catalog:

"Tapping

A hot output can garble the top end. A tapped pickup has an extra output wire connected to only part of the coil windings. This second output has less resistance and the high end punches through clean and clear. You can switch from a fatter tone with higher output to a brighter tone with lower output."

[GregP]

Yup, but are they offering any tapped models? Or only going with the standard "splitting" options?

[soapbarstrat]

It's an '86 catalog. The tapped models seem to all be single coils : STL-2T, STL-3T, SSL-3T, SSL-4T, SSL-5T, SSL-7T