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Stew-mac Steel Tube Leveler


CrazyManAndy

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I've always thought stewmac's quality/accuracy was in line with their prices.... After hearing all these bad experiences I'm gonna have my al radius beam made somewhere else.

Somethings definately wrong when you have to check the straightness of a straightedge - especially when it's brand new and one of the most expensive out there.

Yes - conical fretboards need a flat straightedge or a large radius block although there are no benifits in that case. I've stopped making compund radiuses because although I still think they are a more true representation of the path of the strings, I cant do the kind of accurate work that I do with my 12" boards. I realize this doesnt apply to most here, but I use industrial CNC routers to radius/slot and perimeter my boards to 12". Then I use radius blocks made by the same machine to lightly sand the FB. Then i press in frets with cauls made by the said machine. Then I level with those blocks, and it is so good that I just graze the tops of the frets so minimaly that i dont need to re-crown. Straight to polish.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I've always thought stewmac's quality/accuracy was in line with their prices.... After hearing all these bad experiences I'm gonna have my al radius beam made somewhere else.

Somethings definately wrong when you have to check the straightness of a straightedge - especially when it's brand new and one of the most expensive out there.

Yes - conical fretboards need a flat straightedge or a large radius block although there are no benifits in that case. I've stopped making compund radiuses because although I still think they are a more true representation of the path of the strings, I cant do the kind of accurate work that I do with my 12" boards. I realize this doesnt apply to most here, but I use industrial CNC routers to radius/slot and perimeter my boards to 12". Then I use radius blocks made by the same machine to lightly sand the FB. Then i press in frets with cauls made by the said machine. Then I level with those blocks, and it is so good that I just graze the tops of the frets so minimaly that i dont need to re-crown. Straight to polish.

I really hate to drop names or products. I developed quick and short lived email relationship with a Sanding beam maker on ebay. I traded him some items he wanted and in return received a sanding beam. It was dead flat. I did not agree with his pricing scheme or the fact that it was aluminum for around the same price as SM's which is steel. If you think you may drop it; it may not be a good bet over the long haul. The beam had end caps which allowed sand to be added for additional weight, plus it was a pretty blue.

I would also suggest looking at the aluminum straight edges sold by Lee Valley 24" max, I have one which was dead on out of the box, very accurate. FYI: I have a Sarrett 24" straight edge which I use as a reference edge.

Sanding Beam

Even if you do minimal work you should have some reference edge it is an an essential tool. Even though SM has issues you can always check it out and return it until they send you one which is to specs. I have no issues with most of the tools I have bought from them except pricing. But most tools did not require accuracy but functionality.

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After hearing all these bad experiences I'm gonna have my al radius beam made somewhere else.

To me, the radius beams are even more of a specialized tool than the straight beams, and sky's the limit as to what kind of quality you'd end up, with an alternative source, so I would at least give Stewmac's radius beams a shot. All you have to lose is some time packing it up and shipping it back, plus probably have to be subjected to them suggesting that your testing methods are probably flawed (only going from my own experience). And that's only if they turn out to be flawed. If they are good, then StewMac has a few more bucks to help stay in business and come out with new cool tools.

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Well, I bought the whole set of Stewmac levelers and found them to be slightly MORE accurate than they claimed. I have a couple of dead-flat surface plates around my shop that I use for checking this kind of thing, it's my job. I'll ask again, what kind of tools are you folks checking your Stewmac stuff and are you certain they are as accurate as you think?

has anybody bought any of their regular straightedges? The price is so low I wonder about the quality. My notched straightedge is right on but it appears to be made of thicker steel.

I'm typically a Starrett man all the way, I've sent back more Bridge City stuff than I care to mention over the years because the accuracy was just not there.

I like the weight of the steel, it makes good contact with the frets on its own. Not sure how I'd like aluminum for work like this...........

One thing I did do was request that the beams were first inspected before shipping them out. The Stewmac phone staff (Nick) had no problem accommodating my picky-nature.

Perhaps this "special pick" procedure is the key for the discriminating?

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My main SE is a 24" Bridge City Tool works from the early 90's. I have one notched Stew-mac that is dead flat against the BCTW, and then aother notched stewmac that does not read dead flat against the BCTW.

We could speculate all day about whether my BCTW is dead accurate and which one of the notched ones is dead accurate (assuming at least one is).

But, when I checked both 16" stewmac levelers, I would get a big gap in the middle of one side (no gaps on ends), and gaps on the ends of the other side (no gap in middle) , using the very same SE edge (easy to know, going by the logo on the side of the SE).

So, just that shows that at least one side of the leveler has to be off.

I did have mine checked by stew mac. They wouldn't tell me how flat it actually read against a surface plate. All they said about it's accuracy is : " good enough". This was a few years ago.

Glad to see you back. I had almost thought you were a stewmac employee doing a hit and run on a sick day.

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If you are really that worried about it...bring it to a machine shop and have it specially ground. It shouldn't be a big deal to have it ground flat to +/- .0003. Although lets be real. We are measuring an instrument made of wood that will vary its shape way beyond that tolerance just with the changing of the seasons.

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Save the money spent on straight edge fret levelers and buy the radius beam to get your fretboards perfect instead. I use a radius beam to get my fingerboard perfectly radiused and straight. Then I fret it. I use a fret press for consistency (I used to use a hammer but I find the arbor press to be just as good only much quicker). Once the frets are in I leave them alone until I put the strings on it. It is only when the neck is under tension that the neck will take it's final shape and this is the only time to consider leveling the frets. And forget about neck jigs that pull the necks in ways that strings don't.

To level the frets I use a method that Rick Turner was kind enough to share. It utilizes a piece of 1/2" x 1/2" aluminum angle stock with 1/16" wall thickness. Put some adhesive backed sandpaper on the outside surfaces and you have a simple and cheap fret leveler. I have a set with 320 and 400 grit paper on them in lengths of 3" and 6" each.

With the strings on adjust the truss rod so the fretboard is level (check the tops of the frets at this point, the fretboard surface is meaningless once the frets are in place). Then slide the aluminum leveler under each string and lightly go over the tops of the frets until they are all level and there is no fretting out or buzzing anywhere. Play the guitar as you go so you can adjust and level as necessary.

This is such a quick and easy method and very inexpensive. The last 4 guitars I have built needed almost no leveling at all. I used the leveler to hone the tops of the frets only. This method works very well for me and is the quickest and most accurate method I have used yet.

~David

Edited by Myka Guitars
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Save the money spent on straight edge fret levelers and buy the radius beam to get your fretboards perfect instead.

And say goodbye to the conical radius that I find superior as a player ?

No, of course not. Why would you adopt my methods if you truly find the conical radius superior? Please continue to do what works for you. My description of my methods are in no way a critique of anyone else's methods. I am just sharing what works for me, as you are also doing.

To try and answer your question I think a smaller radius (less than 10") needs to be conical or the strings fret out when bending. With a 12" radius this does not occur using my methods (your experience may be very different from mine). But I will point out that I am using the radius beam to true the fingerboard. I do not use it to level frets for the same reasons you stated a few posts ago. My methods will not apply to the conical boards with varying radii. This cannot be done with a radius beam. But is also not my goal.

I may not have answered this in a satisfactory way. It might be helpful if you stated your radius and goals for your necks. It might make your statement more clear.

~David

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You wrote not to buy a straight leveler and buy a radius leveler instead. That's all I'm going by.

I think I like a 10-14 myself, after years of being quite satisfied with a constant 12".

And I do use a 'neck jig' but don't have one that configures the neck into a different position that what the tuned to pitch string tension does. Never heard of the kind you mentioned.

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You wrote not to buy a straight leveler and buy a radius leveler instead. That's all I'm going by.

Yes, you are correct. The original poster asked a general question about fret levelers and I, like you, sought to express my own views without asking whether or not the OP was seeking the same fretboard shape. I will certainly be more specific in the future so as to avoid confusion.

I think I like a 10-14 myself, after years of being quite satisfied with a constant 12".

Excellent! I still prefer a constant 12" after being quite satisfied with both.

And I do use a 'neck jig' but don't have one that configures the neck into a different position that what the tuned to pitch string tension does. Never heard of the kind you mentioned.

A clarification of what you are talking about would be most helpful to the discussion. What neck jig do you have? With all due respect to your time, if you have a neck jig that accurately simulates string tension in the exact same way that strings do I would think it would greatly benefit this discussion if you detailed it's construction and usage.

The neck jig I am referring to is the one that StewMac sells and that most I have seen are modeled after. It puts upward pressure on the neck at a perpendicular angle to the actual string pull. The difference should be obvious. Wood moves very differently under these two conditions. The Turner method does not try and mimic the string pull, it makes use of the neck under actual and natural string tension. You do not get any more accurate than that.

~David

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Mine's a stew-mac design. Works just great, otherwise I would have chucked it long ago (don't have that much $$$ invested in it). I have experimented with the "Turner method" a little. It's a good alternative (I can afford it too,haha), but I don't find it to give superior results to the neck-jig (I'm extremely fussy about being able to have low string action without buzzing. On my own 25.5" scale neck guitars, I must be able to get 1/32" and 3/64" action for the high and low E at the 12th fret, or I can't play with the "fluid" style I often like to do) I do have a 3rd dial indicator added to show any headstock twist and ways of recreating it. I also seem to have my own method of how I set all the support pins along the back of the neck (I set them while the neck is strung to pitch and in the playing position, rather than popping all the strings off and *then* setting the pins). The dial indicators seem to remain closer to zero, when I do it that way.

Re-checking the fret-board surface with feeler-gauges and a straight-edge confirms that I have "frozen" the neck into the desired position quite well enough.

I know it's not ultimate lazer beam accurate, but I do have a limit when it comes to dealing with a long piece of wood under 170 pounds of end to end string pull, along with how that all changes with a moderate amount of temp and humidity change.

On a complete refret, after pressing in all the new frets, stringing back to pitch and letting the neck stay that way for 1 to 3 days, then putting back on the jig, freezing the neck into it's strung configuration, I can level the frets with a 19" leveling beam from end to end and start with 800 grit (as opposed to the 220 or 320 grit I see so many others start out with)

Bryan Galloup started doing the "with the strings on" fret leveling way back in the early 90's. He used a T shape piece of metal .090" thick that fit under the strings. Sometimes he used this method instead of the neck-jig, sometimes not.

I don't know when Rick Turner started doing almost exactly the same thing, but I'm reluctant to name it the "turner method" if Rick, in fact, got the idea from Galloup.

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This sheds some light on how these jigs can be used to get good results. The demos I have seen were all far less intensive and seemed to push the neck into position as opposed to letting the strings do the work. I appreciate the detail.

I never knew Gallup had done the strings-on-fret-level before. I wonder if the technique was picked up earlier and then remembered as a 'new idea' or if they both arrived at the same idea separately?

Thanks,

~David

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Could be one of those "brain wave" things ( Oh, I don't mean I'm a true believer, but there's signs). Several times, I came up with a tool or technique from scratch, then see later someone else did pretty much the same thing, sometimes even around the same time.

I've also seen devices on "neck jigs" where they have a screw pressure device at the end of the headstock to put end to end pressure on the neck, much like string pull on a perfectly straight neck. I have not tried this yet. Just hasn't seemed like it's needed much if at all. But I am a "gotta try that one of these days" type.

So far, with the UTS method (UTS=Under The Strings), I've only used a 4" long aluminum L piece and it was an early '60's guitar with brass frets. I had the guitar in my set-up jig, and tilted in the playing position, and it was all easy enough to do (there was a rise at the end that really had to be knocked down). Can't find any fault with it. Just don't think I'd ever try to level fret-board wood that way, but I guess if I knew that would be minimal, it would be justified.

Don MacRostie did a whole fret-job while leaving the strings on. Sounds like something they should have contests with at luthier conventions.

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bring it to a machine shop and have it specially ground.

I would just buy a stock piece of O beam for them to grind, because I'm pretty sure the stewmac beams had a plating added after being ground. Once that plating is gone, it's wide open for rust. The plating is a good reason to buy one from stew-mac (assuming you end up with a good perfectly flat one)

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Just don't think I'd ever try to level fret-board wood that way, but I guess if I knew that would be minimal, it would be justified.

I agree. I don't use the UTS method for leveling a fretboard (the wood is shaped with the radius beam and 80-320 grit paper). The technique I describe above is just for leveling the frets after they are installed and the strings are on. It is one of the last steps in my build process.

~David

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