Anyone Else Cut Neck Angle In Heel Of Neck?

[killemall8]

why is this so uncommon? i think it is far easier than coming up with all kinds of jigs and things like that to cut angled neck pockets. it takes like 2 minutes, and is easily done. and another idea, has anyone ever cut the angle into the neck pocket template? where the template is actually cut at an angle instead of using shims and such.

[verhoevenc]

Firstly, if you cut the template at an angle, who cares, if the router isn't at an angle when it follows said template, it's gunna follow whatever part of that template's form for where it's bearing is set... so kinda makes that really pointless.

Also, there's a reason the heels aren't done. I did that on my first build and never will again. Imagine how necks get wider as they go up, and therefore a neck pocket will be wider as it goes further in the body. Then, if you angle the heel of said neck, because of this angle you've now pushed the top edge of the neck ever so slightly further out than the bottom edge at any point. Therefore, when you put the neck in the pocket the top edge will hit before the bottom edge, leaving a little gap and having a less than perfect fit. That said. The fit was good ENOUGH, and the neck holds up perfectly fine, and I filled said mini gap with titebond and dust and hid it just fine. But why settle for this when you COULD prevent it easily?

Also, doing an angled pocket really isn't that hard. You don't need huge jigs, just make a template for your neck pocket, then take a thin piece of wood (like 1/16" x 1/4" x 10") and double stick tape it to the bottom on the template at the right distance away from the front edge (use trig to figure this out) and then, when you lay the template on the body, it'll sit at an angle, and therefore route at that angle as well. Tada, you just made a SUPER EASY angled pocket.

Chris

[RGman]

I cut the angle into the heel with no problems, but i will be routing the angle into the pocket of my next build...much easier.

[erikbojerik]

What these guys said. I've done a Gibson-style set neck (with angled heel) and while it is possible to get a good tight fit, it is not nearly as simple as routing an angled neck pocket. That joint was my first...and last.

Another weakness of that joint which Perry pointed out to me, is that in the area outside the tenon, you're making what amounts to an end-grain to end-grain butt joint, which is not only weak but also will discolor lighter woods when glue soaks into the endgrain. This makes the joint less than invisible.

Better to make the entire end of the neck your tenon, and rout a large angled pocket accordingly. This is a much cleaner and stronger joint.

[Maiden69]

If you do the angle on the neck on a bolt on either bolt on or set neck the bottom or the heel will not sit tight against the body. the pocket will have a 90 degree angle while your neck heel will have an 87 if you go with a 3 degree neck angle, the heel will touch but the bottom of the neck pocket instead of a nice tight seam. on a set, well you can do what Gibson doea and just fill the void with GLUE

[doug]

Make the neck pocket angled. As the others have pointed out you'll have a better neck joint in the end. Shimming the template really is the simplest way.

Not only is the geometry of the neck pocket skewed some if you use the heel to get your angle, but you also have to adjust the end of the heel so it is square with the back of the pocket. This will effectively bring your nut closer to your target bridge location. Something else to consider.

Because I resuse my neck pocket templates I actually create a wedge shaped template so shims are not necessary. Therefore, I know exactly what angle it's going to be every time. Since the router rests on the angled surface the neck pocket comes out perfect. This method creates a neck pocket that matches the heel geometry exactly.

-Doug

[brian d]

(Thinking out loud....)

OTOH, many bolt on necks have shims to adjust the angle, which amounts to the same as an angled heel. While it is true that there may be a slight gap at the end of the tenon to the end of the mortise at the top, you won't have lost any significant structural integrity as that would have been end grain to end grain anyway - a weaker join - and the side grain will be virtually unchanged giving the same strong join. If the tenon goes all the way to the pickup, then there won't even be an aesthetic issue.

I take everyone's point and if I was cutting a new neck pocket I'd angle the pocket. However if you need to make adjustments after the pocket is cut, adjusting the heel angle is way easier. DAMHIK.

regards,

Brian.

[erikbojerik]

I take everyone's point and if I was cutting a new neck pocket I'd angle the pocket. However if you need to make adjustments after the pocket is cut, adjusting the heel angle is way easier. DAMHIK.

Well, if you've planned and drawn it out correctly, any height adjustments should be entirely within the adjustability of the bridge.

[prs man]

I put the neck angle in the heel when I used a prs style neck joint and had no trouble and it was one of the best neck joints I have done. I have use this kind of neck joint on my last 3 builds and all have turned out fine.

[nerosrevenge]

If you do the angle on the neck on a bolt on either bolt on or set neck the bottom or the heel will not sit tight against the body. the pocket will have a 90 degree angle while your neck heel will have an 87 if you go with a 3 degree neck angle, the heel will touch but the bottom of the neck pocket instead of a nice tight seam. on a set, well you can do what Gibson doea and just fill the void with GLUE

I am still on my first build (and by no means an expert) so forgive me if I've got it wrong.

I am cutting the angle in the heel of my current build and I realized that this would be an issue. To get around it, I simply cut the 90 degree angle relative to the angle of the heel, not the neck (did I explain that clearly?). This way when I cut the neck pocket, I should get a good tight fit.

Thanks!

STV.

[jmrentis]

If you do the angle on the neck on a bolt on either bolt on or set neck the bottom or the heel will not sit tight against the body. the pocket will have a 90 degree angle while your neck heel will have an 87 if you go with a 3 degree neck angle, the heel will touch but the bottom of the neck pocket instead of a nice tight seam. on a set, well you can do what Gibson doea and just fill the void with GLUE

I am still on my first build (and by no means an expert) so forgive me if I've got it wrong.

I am cutting the angle in the heel of my current build and I realized that this would be an issue. To get around it, I simply cut the 90 degree angle relative to the angle of the heel, not the neck (did I explain that clearly?). This way when I cut the neck pocket, I should get a good tight fit.

Thanks!

STV.

Just as long as you lengthen the scale. By cutting the heel you end up bring the nut closer to the body, thus shortening the scale length and causing lots of problems. Obviously, this problem depends on the order in which you have done things, like if the bridge posts are installed and you've already cut the scarf or shaped a fender style neck, then your in for problems, otherwise you can make adjustments to save yourself the problems, I believe. From the beginning people mentioned it shortening the scale, but as with everything there are solutions if you really wanted to bother, you could always leave a small amount of extra length at the heel, so when you cut that angle for the snug fit you don't get a shorter scale length.

Usually, when what seems to be the more difficult method is considered common practice and the easy route isn't done often, there's usually a good reason. Though, people come up with new twists on old ideas all the time making those easier methods just as effective and efficient as the more difficult ones.

It seems that instead of making multiple cuts to get a snug heel, leaving the neck blank longer, finding multiple angles, or filling gaps with glue, an angled pocket is just the easier option and probably the more consistent one.

Edited September 8, 2007 by jmrentis