Cherryburst Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 (edited) This is sort of a follow up to the thread I made about Maple vs Mahogany wood "sustain" issues. Lets talk about metal parts... We all know that brass was a big deal back in the 80's for bridges, for "sustain" Everybody was selling something with brass in it. Callaham makes a good case that cold-rolled 1018 steel is best for trem-blocks http://www.callahamguitars.com/blocks.htm Both brass and steel make sense because of their density, but the use of Aluminum is interesting... Hipshot makes its baby grand bridge out of aluminum, and Stewmac sells a wraparound that uses a 1950 aluminum alloy http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailp...ls.html#details http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailp..._Tailpiece.html Super Vee makes a trem in which they found aluminum to have the "warmest tone" after trying everything else. http://www.super-vee.com/technology.html So.... does anyone want to express their thoughts on Brass vs Steel vs Aluminum as a bridge material for "sustain"? Edited September 11, 2007 by Cherryburst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 This is sort of a follow up to the thread I made about Maple vs Mahogany wood "sustain" issues. Lets talk about metal parts... We all know that brass was a big deal back in the 80's for bridges, for "sustain" Everybody was selling something with brass in it. Callaham makes a good case that cold-rolled 1018 steel is best for trem-blocks http://www.callahamguitars.com/blocks.htm Both brass and steel make sense because of their density, but the use of Aluminum is interesting... Hipshot makes its baby grand bridge out of aluminum, and Stewmac sells a wraparound that uses a 1950 aluminum alloy http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailp...ls.html#details http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailp..._Tailpiece.html Super Vee makes a trem in which they found aluminum to have the "warmest tone" after trying everything else. http://www.super-vee.com/technology.html So.... does anyone want to express their thoughts on Brass vs Steel vs Aluminum as a bridge material for "sustain"? How bout this, Try to start your topic with an explanation of your understanding as to how trems, trem blocks, tailpieces, maybe saddles, trem/tailblock bridges, wraps, TOMs, and such function, and what variables effect their performance(good or bad), and then give a little information on the mechanical properties of different metals and alloys that you would like to compair. If you are specifically wanting to talk about sustain, be sure you try to identify all the variable you can that may impact sustain(at least that are directly related to these parts). You ask a broad question(covering a lot of hardware, no specifics about any other design factors). You are about to generate a lot of mis-information(or at least assemble a lot of half complete concepts), and this will lead to various conclusions. This is not going to be helpful(ESPECIALLY to guys that are newer and can't cut through the garbage yet). You need to focus your topics, and start with fundementals. Just my thoughts, Peace,Rich P.S. Greg you best get your Voodoo/BS/"Wonky"(I liked that one ) stamps ready for this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 It really depends on which phase the Moon is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Indeed. The metals must always be harvested at the proper phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 It really depends on which phase the Moon is in. Rubbish, it has NOTHING to do with the phases of the moon, thats the tides you are thinking of. Its the alignment of the STARS that create great tone alloy mixes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 See, this time it IS Voodoo. But practical voodoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 It really depends on which phase the Moon is in. Rubbish, it has NOTHING to do with the phases of the moon, thats the tides you are thinking of. Its the alignment of the STARS that create great tone alloy mixes. But if the temp is off by a few degrees then !!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the ice will melt faster and this could cause premature case hardening!! LOL:) mk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddW Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Are you sure. I thought that would only have an effect if you used metal harvested from those gas rings surounding certain white dwarf stars. More seriously, I'd think there are too many other variables here to try and come up with any reasonable answer about how the metal affects the tone (effects or affects? hmmm, think that's affect) But it seems like it might have an effect on a bridge's durability. Do aluminium or brass bridges ever fail? Can't imagine any steel alloy being weak enough to fail, but again, design . . . Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemjinStrife Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 On a slightly more serious note, Charles Manson (the guy who makes Matt Bellamy's guitars) claims that steel saddles and bridge plates produce top and bottom, while brass produces middle, and "there's no comparison sustain-wise" in that steel is better. I also dislike brass nuts for the most part because string windings can wear gouges into them pretty easily. GFS likes to think that lightweight aluminum wraparound bridges are more resonant and "alive"-sounding than their heavier PRS alloy counterparts. But, to each his own. Frankly, I'd go with plated or stainless steel for durability myself. God knows there's enough stress on some bridge styles to cause them to de-arch in the middle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 So far you have collected sales pitches, a counple thoughts on durability. Some fellas looking to the stars, oceans, and elements. Lets see how day two goes . Peace,Rich P.S. Nice Greg, "practical voodoo", as opposed to "chimerical voodoo". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Charles Manson (the guy who makes Matt Bellamy's guitars) So thats where his killer tone comes from! [/obligatory bad joke] I think its Hugh Manson... Charles Manson was famous for something slightly different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherryburst Posted September 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Thanks Temjinstrife, I've sorta seen that in the past of brass not being quite as bright as steel. ...and theres no shortage of people complaining of zinc or mystery-alloy bridges that dont sound quite as good as cold steel. I'm wondering if aluminum is kinda like the "maple vs mahogany" thing. Maple may technically may have more "sustain" but mahogany may tend to sustain the things that sound more pleasing. Maybe aluminum is like that... not as "sustaining" as 1018 steel, but it resonates/cancels the right things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemjinStrife Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 (edited) Charles Manson (the guy who makes Matt Bellamy's guitars) So thats where his killer tone comes from! [/obligatory bad joke] I think its Hugh Manson... Charles Manson was famous for something slightly different :D Indeed, there are far too many mansons. Charles, Marilyn, Hugh... it was one of the three... Edited September 13, 2007 by TemjinStrife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 P.S. Nice Greg, "practical voodoo", as opposed to "chimerical voodoo". Something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimboh Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Charles Manson (the guy who makes Matt Bellamy's guitars) So thats where his killer tone comes from! [/obligatory bad joke] I think its Hugh Manson... Charles Manson was famous for something slightly different ...lol only slightly different... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Shirlely we can't forget the chick from "Garbage", now? What was her first name, anyway? Aluminum.. it's the new brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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