Jump to content

Need Help Fast With Paint Job


ANIM4L
 Share

Recommended Posts

Ok so the story goes:

My dad is in India until middle of December. He has been playing guitar for 40+ years. He got me into music at an early age and have been playing the drums for 12 years. I wanted to make him the ultimate christmas present, a custom guitar by his son. His favorite type of guitar is a Les Paul (im hearing thats no shocker) and I am kind of on a budget. I decided to buy a used Epiphone Les Paul Studio from Ebay and also bought two new humbuckers to get the sound he likes, new gibson pots, plus a few other things. Now I am planning everything i do with this project to make sure it goes right. I am now planning the painting stages:

The guitar I won has a scratch in the body, which is ok since i was planning on repainting anyways, but i need to know how to do this all. I have been thinking about spending the 27 dollars on that Paintyourownguitar.com book. My biggest dillemma is I dont know how to do this AND i dont want it to take too long. Now if it will eb done a bit after christmas thats ok, i can deal with that, but i wanted ti to be simple so i was going to paint it a cream color with a little image on the back that a drew (Two wolves howling at a moon, simple image, i think i know how to get it on the guitar with paint, yellow cuircle for moon, then make a stencil fo the wolves and paint them pure black). I need help with this project though!

I dont know what paint to use, i am on a budget, and have heard that duplicolor works well and theni have read that it takes forever to cure.

I dont know the process of painting it, from what i have read:

1) sand down to wood OR just take off the finish and go from there

2) Put on white or grey primer (4 coats?)

3) sand the primer a bit to smooth it out using 2000 grit

4) put on color coats (2-6 coats?)

5) sand down after drying to make smooth using 2000 grit

6) apply clear coat?

I am a smart guy, but have neevr apinted before, so i am learning. I need some hand holding here PLEASE! this is a gift for my dad i really want to do but i need to be helped out, put into the right direction, and told what to use an do. I guess the first improtant tihng is what do i paint with to not break my bank but not wait forever to dry (anything out there dry in a few hours every coat?), then i will go from there.

Sorry this is all jumpled and probably a very unorganized post, i just started typing :D I need help on this guitar, please!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i'm no professional, but i am currently refinishing my guitar. basicly, you've got the idea. but after you clear coat it (about 5~6 layers seem good enough..), you need to give it sufficient time to dry (similarly after the color coats).. then sand it up to 1500 and polish. you're done.

a few tips.. when sanding the clear coat, make sure you get ALL of the shiny spots or they're gonna be a problem when you polish..

since you're painting wood, i would suggest some lacquer-based aerosol paint.. that stuff dries pretty fast.. its probably a wrong thing to do, but i'm in a hurry so i spray a new layer of 2 passes every 45mins ~1hr. it isn;t giving me any trouble so far..

lastly, when the paint is drying, make sure you suspend it as whatever surface you leave it on while the paint is still soft will leave a mark..

Hope this helps and good luck, dude...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First thing is read through the tutorials section for painting. There are a few great topics in there on how to do it. Secondly go to www.reranch.com, there is a ton of great information there.

I would say just sand the finish that is not there now to get it evenly roughed up. There is no sense in sanding down to the wood to have to re-seal it when the paint that is on there now will work as a great sealer and leveler. Lay down 2 or 3 coats of primer, just enough to cover the original finish so it doesn't show through. Then 2 or three color coats, again just enough to get an even color and cover the primer. Then your color coats. Since you sound like you are using spray cans, you are going to want a good 15 to 20 coats. Rattle cans build slowly. DO NOT SAND AFTER 5 OR 6 COATS. You WILL sand through to the color. You want to get at least 10 coats on before you level sand, if not even more. Lacquers are going to take at least a month to cure to the point that you can sand them and polish them. They shrink back drastically and usually are still soft until that point. I have never used the spray can poly's (like Minwax) but others here have. Do a search for either polyurethane or minwax, and see what you can find. They might dry quicker. Basically once you do not smell the fumes coming off the guitar anymore you can wet sand and polish. Another test, is to press with your fingernail in an area that will not be seen. If it leaves a dent, it is not fully cured yet. Then do a search on wet sanding and polishing to get info on how to do that. This forum and reranch's forum have more than enough info on how to paint a guitar that you will not need the book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have spent atleast 6 hours total over the past couple days reading through the forums, i have over 30 pages printed out from reranch and here about how to do things to get the general idea. A couple things i dont get, but i think i MAY understand are when to sand down. After i finish the base/primer coat sand right? and after i finsih the color coats?

Also how can i get an image i drew onto the guitar? I have read a few different ideas, about aluminum foil and stuff, but i am wondering what you think?

Also, my biggest wuestion is what should i use to paint it with that isnt SUPER expensive, easy to do, and dries relatively quickly (remember i would hope to get this done in less than a month)

Thanks for the replys so far, printed them out :D

Im doing a search for minwax now, i did look up duplicolor and read that the guy from Paintyourownguitar.com uses it, does it work good and LAST (Obviously i dont want a stupid looking guitar after a month). I would like to use a rattle can, as of ease of getting them and price, but i would rather have quality over cost efficiency if it came down to it. In other words, i woudl rather spend a bit mroe to a have a paint job that lasts.

Keep the info coming! Thanks everyone!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't use duplicolor, the guy there used it and later came here and said that it was worthless... look for Dino and search his posts...

If you like your father, get the real thing. Go to Stew Mac and buy the nitro from them. I can say that you will be OK to use Duplicolor base, as long as it is a base coat paint and spray it thin and cover that with nitro.

Some people have had good experience with cans... I haven't. I used them a lot before but not anymore, and i didn't get a gun set up until last december. You can use the preval if you want to buy the quarts, but at the ens is almost as expensive as buying the cans from Stew Mac.

Cost effective, shouldn't be an issue, because if you use a paint that will not cure, you will have to striop is and restart again... ther what ever you saved from ther get go is gone... you want to get something that will last once you finish it... if you have a deadline I suggest you get with a neigbohr or a friend that allow you to hide it while it cures and put it together... I think that your father will appreciated it no matter the date that you give it to him!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info, i went to Stew Macs website, and saw the paints, but i dont knwo what to buy. Do i buy the spray gun for liek 40$ then buy the waterbased paints or the non water based laquer? How long does that stuff take to cure? is there anything i could paint and have done befroe one month from now?

any ideas on how to do the images or when to sand also?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with lacquer in this situation is that it is suggested to give the finish around a one month period to cure before you wet sand and buff. You can chop a week off of that, or possibly even two, but it's best not to if you can help it. I'm in agreement with Maiden, I think if you take your time and get it done right, your dad will love it regardless. In any case, my knowledge of the quicker drying finishes, such as poly, is very limited so I can't really help there.

You mentioned ReRanch, so you should have an understanding of the process and when to do the sanding. The tutorial there is pretty detailed, and the forum has plenty of info as well as knowledgeable members to help you out. And on that note, have you thought about using ReRanch materials? Their stuff is top quality. Water-based vs. nitrocellulose is really up to you, you can use either. As Maiden said, you can use Duplicolor, just be careful and mist the nitro lightly on top of that, until you build up a good layer, then you can move onto wetter coats.

I know there are some folks who aren't fans of rattlecan finishes, which is perfectly fine, but I see complete newbies turn out beautiful guitars everyday over at the ReRanch forum, so it is certainly possible.

Hope that helps!

CMA

Edited by CrazyManAndy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since you're asking about buying a spray gun, it sounds like you have access to an air compressor. If so what size is it and what is the CFM rating @ 40psi. You'll need that information to know if you can operate a spray gun. Either way look into Sherwin Williams conversion varnish. There is a thread in the section a few pages down about S-W automotive finishes and it is discussed some in there. Also you can check out the link below and read through that thread. The clear will be ready in about a week. I am not sure what kind of paint to use under it though since the paints need time to gas off and cure. You can spray it though with either a compressor and gun if you have one or you can use the preval sprayers.

The only sanding you should need to do until you have about 10 coats down (with spray cans, less with a gun) is a light scuff sand to get the next coat to stick. A quick swipe with 400 or 600 grit is all the is needed. If you use lacquers, they melt into each other and will not need to sand between coats at all.

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...&hl=sherwin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually dont have personal access to an air compressor. Remember, i am completely new at this painting thing :D I am a very hands on person so I can get the hang of things pretty quick tho. Someone I know may have a spray gun i can use to paint with, but he lives 2 hours away and he wants me to leave the guitar at his place. That means me driving there and back every day for a wek, not able to do that. May be he will let me borrow it. If i can borrow it can i just buy the paint and put it in the canister and spray away?

If i cant get a hold of a spray gun, what brand and how do i go about using a spray can. I want it to look good 3 months from now, so Krylon is out of the question. I have looked up websites on everything people have said and do lieka few things i have seen.

Now a mopnth to cure... i realized what day it was (i thought it was closer to end of november) and if i need to wait a month for it to cure so it looks good, then so be it, liek you said, i want it to look good for my dad. The color i am painting it is a light cream color. So if there is a brand of rattle cans (im completely assuming this is the spray cans) that will work great, even if i have to let it cure for a few weeks, please tell em which one. I cant wait 2+ months tho, so whichever brands those are i wont use.

Also, is it a good investment to get the e-book from paintyourownguitar.com just for a learning reference, or is it pretty easy to paint a guitar that just reading and tkaing notes from you guys should be enough for me to do a good job?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, how would i make the logo. It is of two wolves howling at a moon, the wolves are one color shadows (pure black) and the moon will either be one coat light orange and one coat yellow, or just yellow. Would i do a few coats of the cream color, then somehow (PLEASE HELP ME FIGURE THIS OUT!) block of a stencil of the yellow circle for the moon, paint that, then stencil of the wolves, paint that, then clear coat it? or do i clear coat inbetween each new color (from the base to the moon to the wolves)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have spent atleast 6 hours total over the past couple days reading through the forums, i have over 30 pages printed out from reranch and here about how to do things to get the general idea. A couple things i dont get, but i think i MAY understand are when to sand down. After i finish the base/primer coat sand right? and after i finsih the color coats?

Also how can i get an image i drew onto the guitar? I have read a few different ideas, about aluminum foil and stuff, but i am wondering what you think?

Also, my biggest wuestion is what should i use to paint it with that isnt SUPER expensive, easy to do, and dries relatively quickly (remember i would hope to get this done in less than a month)

Thanks for the replys so far, printed them out :D

Im doing a search for minwax now, i did look up duplicolor and read that the guy from Paintyourownguitar.com uses it, does it work good and LAST (Obviously i dont want a stupid looking guitar after a month). I would like to use a rattle can, as of ease of getting them and price, but i would rather have quality over cost efficiency if it came down to it. In other words, i woudl rather spend a bit mroe to a have a paint job that lasts.

Keep the info coming! Thanks everyone!

An autobody repair place may clear coat it for a reasonable amount. Their finish dries and hardens very quickly. You could take it there and inquire. They might be able to advise you on what type of paint is compatable with their clear coat. If you start adding up your supplies including mistakes it may not be unreasonable to take it there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm ok i may look into that. One more thing, i found posts on curing with heat lamps, i may try that, but i am starting to think safety now:

Where i will be painting is a spare bedroom in the house, since we are tearing out the flooring after ym project is complete, and i will hang the guitars below the fan in the room, ill turn the fan on when i am done with each coat, and also i will have the window open with a screen there to block large stuff from coming in. Will this be ok, i will wear a mask obviously, and if i do the heating method, i can get two heat lamps, one for each side, and turn them on half an hour after painting, and leave them on for 15 minutes. I am also looking into the method of curing using fans...

sorry i have lots of questions, my last 4 posts are full of unanswered questions for those looking to help me out :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok so i decided i am oging to just take off the finish on the guitar instead of sanding to the wood. This way i dont have as much work ahead of me. The color of the body is going to now be a dark metallic blue. I will be doing a couple coats of primer. Then a coat of white (for the design i am putting in). When that dries i will lay down the design i want (still dont knwo waht to use to make the design i am making) and then go over it with a metallic blue paint. when that cures (will be putting a fan on it after every coat front and back, large fans) i will put on some clear coat. fan cure that fro however long that takes, then wet sand it down to smooth it out. that is a rough idea of how and what i am doing, does that sound right at all?

also still have questions in my last few posts needing to be answered

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you painting with brushes, aerosol cans or a compressor? What ever I would paint the logos and then clear coaat but I am no expert. I've only stained a guitar and then used minwax to clear it. I've used water slide decal paper to do a small logo but I don't know how large you want to make the logo.

:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you painting with brushes, aerosol cans or a compressor? What ever I would paint the logos and then clear coaat but I am no expert. I've only stained a guitar and then used minwax to clear it. I've used water slide decal paper to do a small logo but I don't know how large you want to make the logo.

:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't recommend heat lamps for nitro. You can easily mess up the finish, and I think they're usually used for a different kind of finish anyway. Fans would be a safer alternative.

Related link: http://www.reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.p...&highlight=

I think that anytime you change color, you're supposed to put a down a little clear to "lock-in" the previous color. Don't quote me on that, but that's all I can remember. I highly recommend posting your question about applying the design on the ReRanch forum. I believe there are quite a few folks there who have done exactly what you're trying to do, and many more who can offer some good advice.

ReRanch makes quality rattlecan supplies. Everything from the sanding sealer to the clear. I think you said you wanted a dark metallic blue? They have one called Lake Placid Blue.

Related link: http://www.reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.p...ake+placid+blue

Related link: http://www.reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.p...ake+placid+blue

If they don't have a color you want, you can of course look at paintscratch.com and see if they do. Mohawk has a wide selection of tinted nitro lacquer aerosols, but I think you have to make a bulk order. Some places will custom make spray cans if you have a sample of the color. Then there are always the acrylics, such as Rustoleum and Duplicolor.

Patience is key to a good finish!

CMA

Edited by CrazyManAndy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

First let me say. Whoa. Slow down there speedy.

The key to any of this being a success is project managment.

You have a goal now you have to map out a few other critical things.

1. Budget

2. Timeframe

3. Risks

4. Stakeholders ( key people, you, your dad, any help you may need or get)

5. Requirements (the eventual desired outcome in detail)

Once you've figured this out you can start filling in the blanks. Yes you can run off half prepared and things come out alright, sometimes. The thing I've learned as a professional project manager is that it doesn't matter if I'm installing 25 million dollars worth of technology or building a pedal. If you approach it like a chess game and think a few steps ahead your success rate is much higher.

The graphic you want to do could be done simply with an airbrush. Kustomshop.com even has a pretty decent wolf stencil. If you think stencils have to look bad check out some of what Frasier does with his stencils at gotpaint.com. However if you've never used an airbrush before don't expect to pick one up and spray a perfect image day one.

My other advice is pick a system and stick to it. Once you start mixing systems and brands you are playing junior chemist.

As far as the e-book on guitar painting, I haven't read it. But I would say go border, barnes and noble, and your library and look into some books on custom autopainting. You will find most of the materials we use for guitars are either automotive or wood finishes. Since you want to do a solid color with a graphic, your probably going automotive. Jon Kosmoski, founder of House of Kolor, has a couple of great books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WOW ok thanks for all the replies.

For the wolf design, i have drawn out what i want it to look like, i just need some way to transfer over a "tape" type object so i can spray over the tape and not mess up the design below.

For painting schedule then, this is what i have come up with (Please fill in when I sand and wet sand - wet sanding is where you lightly wet the top of the guitar with warm water froma bowl that had ivory soap soaking in it? correct?)

Sand down with 1000+ grit sandpaper to remove the finish on old paint

Lay down Grey primer (about 2 coats?)

Sand (Not sure on grit) to smooth out primer

Lay down White coat

Lay down clear coat (1 coat?) to lock in color

Lay down design to cover area

Spray down with 4-6 coats of metallic blue paint

Obviously let fully cure with fans going

Lay down a few coats of clear coat

Wet sand down?

Not sure where to go from here

Is that correct on procedure

I am not trying to rush anything, im just trying to learn and see what is the best approach. ATM i am heading towards ease fo paint so some type of Rattle can, but i dont know which brand to use, heard duplicolor was good, not sure, but i DONT want the guitar to look like crap after a month! I am talking to my friend tomorrow to see if he has a pressurized paint sprayer so i would use that instead. <-- Thats the best route from what i am reading a lto of.

I am learnign so much, please keep the info coming, my guitar wont be here for 4 -5 days so i am still in learning mode :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

P.S. - Just went to ReRanch, checked otu forums, havent posted anything, just reading (Yay another forum to go through :D ) but I have decided, taht si if everyone here agrees, that i will paint with ReRanch's paints. I just gotta get lucky to get him when he is open, when does he usualyl open?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Animal,

Are you reading the replies?

You have the ReRanch tutorial and Structo's tutorial, which I PM'd you. Both of them explain, in detail, the finishing schedule for nitro, when to sand, and what grits to use. I also recommended a couple of good options for rattle cans. The guitar won't look like crap, after a month, assuming you follow the steps and take your time. Again, I recommend posting over at ReRanch regarding the design you're trying to paint. They can tell you how to do it, for sure. Oh, and I agree with syxx, sticking with one system is always the best idea.

By the way, there are many things you can use to wet sand with. A lot of people don't like water because it can crack the finish if it gets into any holes. Mineral spirits is a great alternative. If you're doing the final wet sanding (not laying down anymore coats), mineral oil is a great alternative.

CMA

(Edit: I just saw your second post. Your best bet would be to check once a day, or just whenever you get on the computer. He'll probably open back up soon.)

Edited by CrazyManAndy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, ya i got your Pm, i printed it out. I am heading off to bed now, but tomorrow morning i will post my plans and see what peopel say. So check back every day, he doesnt have a set schedule, that sucks :D O well

I just looked at what you sent me again, i see what to do now :D Thanks

I think i may be in ok shape now to give it a go B) How much do fans make the curing process go by? I see the time to wait if 3-4 weeks before clear coating, with a fan is it less?

Also i just realized a new question, since i will most like (Yes i will check with reranch forum) be laying one coat of under layer for the logo, the clear coating, then doing my main metallic blue coat, will i need to let the one coat of white cure before clearing it? or not really cuz its one coat?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Curing is only done at the end of the finishing process, after applying all of the clear coats. Curing is a bit different from drying. "Drying" is what you do by spraying only so much each day and letting those coats dry overnight. "Curing" is giving the finish time to harden before buffing it out. And that should be 3-4 weeks after clear coating, not before. I don't know how much it would speed up the curing process.

I'll keep an eye out for your thread at the ReRanch forum. Can't wait to see some progress!

:D

CMA

Edited by CrazyManAndy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well that was kind of wierd. I cant sign up to post on ReRanch. It says my email was banned, yet I have never signed up there before. Umm well i guess i have my plans, ill keep everyone up to date on the progress. Im going to try to buy some paint as soon as the store opens, it is usually open atleast once a week? I am going to attempt to also find out how to transfer an image onto the guitar...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...