My First Acoustic

[fryovanni]

Okay, I took it out about 15 minutes after it was bent, it seemed to bounce back a lot. I'm not sure what i did wrong. My guess is i didnt let the heat get high enough or I let the water dry up before i bent it. Also, rich, i did not masking tape the inside of my aluminum, i thought that might in some way be a fire hazard, And i read that after i bent them.

I bend sides, and leave them in the form overnight (pretty common practice).

Are you getting steam? Do you have a thermometer of some sort? You need to get the temp up in the zone (around 300 degrees, your going to have steam rolling around 250, that is when the heat really starts moving into the wood, but it still takes a bit more before you are there, if you shut down the heat right when you see steam it will not get to temp).

I have been using masking tape to seal the edges of the slats(wood sandwhich, if you will) to keep the steam contained for years. Have faith, it works just fine and doesn't burn. It will release and not hold a perfect seal, but it DOES help keep the steam in just long enough for a nice bend, and better protection against scortching. After you have bent, and then re-cooked, then are going to leave the wood in the form overnight. Go around with a razor and slice the masking tape open to allow the wood to breath better.

Peace,Rich

[carousel182]

Thanks rich,

I wasn't really sure what to expect going into it but with that little run through of what i should do i think Ill know what to do for today. I still have to check my side in the mold ill tell you how it went, my guess is it will lose it form.

[carousel182]

theres how much bounce back i got, the wood was baked once. Do you have any idea what the problem may have been?

[verhoevenc]

That's not horrible. It'll definitely fit in your mold. Get some spreaders to keep it pressed against the sides. You'll be fine.

Chris

[fryovanni]

Yep, I think Chris is right (smart fella that guy). I imagine the heat may have been a tad low, and if this is the set you pulled right out of the bending form, it may have held better if it was left in place overnight. Often that second good round of heating really helps set the bend. Your bend doesn't look wobbly or wacky at all though (which is great ), a little spring back can be overcome pretty easy. Your doing great!

Peace,Rich

[carousel182]

Thanks Rich and Chris, I really appreciate the help. How exactly do i overcome the spring back, do i have to do any more rebending or am I fine? Also, I know it looks really ugly (the moldy stuff on it) now, but i do plan on continuing a build with these sides (unless of course that moldy stuff doesn't come off at all.) Also, I'm going to be going to the Martin guitar factory to pick up plenty of rosewood/spruce for this and future builds (I'm 1/100th through my first build and I'm already addicted, not a good sign.)

I'm going to try to make some kerfing tomorrow if I have any time at all. Would basswood be a suitable wood for this, I think I saw basswood kerfing somewhere on stewmac.

[SnowGTR]

I made my side bending form so it over bends the sides a little in the waste area and the upper and lower bouts. Then when I put the sides in my mold, the spring back is much closer to the shape that I am trying to achieve... I try to force the wood as little as possible to fit the mold.

It looks to me that you’ll be just fine.

[carousel182]

I don't have to force them at all to go into the mold. Just they arent the exact shape of the mold, how do i get them the exact shape is what I'm wondering now?

[SnowGTR]

I am not exactly sure of what you are asking, but I use a turn buckle attached to wood blocks that are the same shape as the mold in the waste area. I put one side in and use the turn buckle to hold it in place. Then I push the side by hand to the inside of the mold and mark the ends were they need to be trimmed. If holding it by hand is difficult you could use clamps to hold the sides tight to the mold in stead but you have to be sure that the sides stay true. I do the same to the other side. Then when both sides are trimmed, they should be tight and match the mold.

Here is a pic of the turn buckle and mold.

[scab]

After you have bent the sides, stick them into the mold and clamp them (using pony clamps-or whatever you can get your hands on). Then spray (mist) water on the bent side (while in the mold) and dry it w/ a heat gun. This shocks the wood into its form and helps it hold better.

Good Luck!

Scab

P.S. You're asking how to make the wood the exact bends as the mold. You have to remember that you're taking a piece of wood (that has been sitting in the shape it has for many many years) and all of a sudden bending them. When I bend mine I do what I said above, and it doesn't come out of the mold until the top and back have been glued on.

Edited January 25, 2008 by scab

[GoodWood]

Uhm,. I had the exact same thing happen, I had to redo the mold and build in a 'bend'. I was about 2 inches popout. about the same as yours.

Cut the difference into the blanket mold. I retried bending about 5X and it only helped to 1/2 an inch. You have to overbend them.

Also looks like you went with Kinkeads mold design, did that also, but you have to do all the stuff-the holding blocks etc or its just a pain later on. to plane the sides, glue up etc. Im going with 3 inch plywood build next. Welcome to the learning cure. Im revoicing an old alvarez, thats a leaning experience also for top braces and how delicate the balance is. Very ....

Good luck!

Edited January 25, 2008 by GoodWood

[verhoevenc]

I would re-think those turnbuckles... those are going to be VERY hard to get out once you glue on the top and back hahahaha.

Also, next time you build a mold... there's a MUCH nicer way to d it all. My friend ToddStock over at the OLF has done a number of tutorials on mold building, go find them, they're VERY helpful and make the best molds I have ever used or seen. They're thick enough to keep the sides' shape, while thin enough to radius sand with nothing getting in the way. They come apart so you can have two of the same half for a normal, or switch in a cutaway half for a cutaway guitar... they're great.

Chris

[SnowGTR]

I would re-think those turnbuckles... those are going to be VERY hard to get out once you glue on the top and back hahahaha.

Also, next time you build a mold... there's a MUCH nicer way to d it all. My friend ToddStock over at the OLF has done a number of tutorials on mold building, go find them, they're VERY helpful and make the best molds I have ever used or seen. They're thick enough to keep the sides' shape, while thin enough to radius sand with nothing getting in the way. They come apart so you can have two of the same half for a normal, or switch in a cutaway half for a cutaway guitar... they're great.

Chris

I only use the turn buckles to hold the sides while I do the majority of the work. Once the sides are cut, kerfed and dished I pull them out and then I glue the top and back on. If the sides don't stay tight to the mold, I'll put a couple of wood go-bars in that come out with no fuse at all after the top and back are glued on.

As far as the mold itself, I have plenty of clearance for my sanding dishes.

The mold does separate in to two half’s. I use steel rods as index pins so the half’s go together properly. I should have taken a pic of it in two. I have another mold that doesn’t have the cutaway that I use if need be. I do have to admit that after splitting the mold to remove the body, the cutaway area can be a little tricky and an insert would be better, but it’s not that big of a deal.

[SnowGTR]

Thanks Chris for the tip on OLF...I haven't found a tutorial page on mold making yet, but I'll continue to look

[verhoevenc]

Just run a search for ToddStock... can you do that over there? I dunno if you can run searchs on member names? If it doesn't work and you can't find it, lemmie know.

Chris

[carousel182]

Hey guys,

I'm just about ready to order some stuff for this and I'm wondering if I need a bridge pin reamer? also, in Kinkades book he shows a diagram like this

he makes the neck out of one 40x3 1/4thx 1" piece of mahogany glued together as seen in that diagram I made in paint. Is this the way you guys would go about doing this?

[GoodWood]

Hey guys,

I'm just about ready to order some stuff for this and I'm wondering if I need a bridge pin reamer? also, in Kinkades book he shows a diagram like this

he makes the neck out of one 40x3 1/4thx 1" piece of mahogany glued together as seen in that diagram I made in paint. Is this the way you guys would go about doing this?

I think his angle is 10 degrees, you might want 15 if Im not mistaken. Im doing one neck that way basicly, but I ran out of wood, make sure its thick enough.

Scarf joints are best done on the table saw if you go that way.

Yea, Kinkead messed me up a bit, to be sure. He has his own way to do things, some are old (fashioned) But he makes great sounding guitars I hear.

[fryovanni]

I do scarf headstocks. I prefer to use a solid one piece heel block though (looks better to me).

Peace,Rich

[Mattia]

It works, although that method (for the headstock) has all the disadvantages of a scarf (ie, you see the glue line) as well as almost all the disadvantages of a one-piece headstock (weaker, all short grain in the headstock, only advantage is you don't need an absurdly big hunk of wood). I reccomend scarfing.

[carousel182]

I see. I still think I'm going to be using the method Kinkade uses, and I'm going to use a headstock veneer. I'd rather do that than waste a huge chunk of mahogany on my first acoustic (This time its not because im being cheap, I do have enough mahogany for as many necks as I would ever need, but since their is a decent sized chance ill screw this up the first time around, im going to use the method he shows except I'm going to use a one piece heel cause i have some big mahogany cut offs. ).

Also, do you think i need a bridge pin hole reamer?

Edited January 30, 2008 by carousel182

[Mattia]

Bridge pin reamer: yes. makes life so much easier and ensures you get a solid fit.

Additionally, scarfing is better, and uses just as much wood. If you want to go with Kinkaed's method, I'd reccomend a backstrap veneer (back of the headstock) as well.

[carousel182]

Just a little update to tell you all that this project is not dead. Im working on a couple electrics right now, and I don't have much time anyway, but when i get done with them I'm going to work on this 100%. I got some MOP and a jewelers saw but 30$ for 1 oz of MOP seems like a lot. Is there any cheaper place to get it?

BTW one electric is here

and the other is about 85% finished (minus finishing.)

Edited February 5, 2008 by carousel182

[fryovanni]

Just a little update to tell you all that this project is not dead. Im working on a couple electrics right now, and I don't have much time anyway, but when i get done with them I'm going to work on this 100%. I got some MOP and a jewelers saw but 30$ for 1 oz of MOP seems like a lot. Is there any cheaper place to get it?

BTW one electric is here http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r191/stelmach1117/DSCN0125.jpg

and the other is about 85% finished (minus finishing.)

You can buy shell from MOP Supplies link, but you have to consider international shipping costs may be expensive for a small order.

You can buy from Andy Depaule without international shipping-link, Andy always offers top quality product and the best service you will find anywhere.

Peace,Rich

[Mattia]

Allied Lutherie occasionally does a good deal on a big bag of pearl, too.

[carousel182]

Hey,

my jewelers saw arrived from stewmac along with the pearl. Its enough to do the prs bird inlay that im planning. But I'm wondering, how do you attach the blades to the frame and get the blades to be tight. What i did was tighten the blade into the bottom section, put the blade into the top section, bend the frame by pressing the top and bottom sections together, and then tightened the top section. when I stopped bending it it was on there pretty tight, was this the right way to do it.

Sorry if that was hard to understand.