Tuner Question

[Kramers Rule]

I am building a super strat w/ a fixed bridge. I know... I will use my other guitar if I get the urge to play w/ the whammy bar!

I have always liked the idea of locking tuners... would it be dumb to put locking tuners on a guitar w/ out a trem system

I would appreciate any feedback.

[GregP]

Lots of people do it, some of them for no other reason than preferring the process of changing strings with locking tuners. (I guess it would depend on which tuners exactly, but most if not all would require less fuss at re-string time)

On top of that, by eliminating the need for wraps around your post, you are potentially creating a more "stable" string at the post. Less material to stretch, no overlaps suddenly "falling into place", no wraps causing friction and "popping" as the settle into place with the adjascent wraps.

So, IMO, it's not "dumb". Not "necessary" perhaps, but nothing wrong with spoiling yourself.

[drpossehl]

I use them with fixed bridges and love them! I'll never go back for that matter. you can get chrome Schaller Mini Locking Tuners for $51 a set at warmoth.com . For that price, theres nothing dumb about it.

Gotta agree with Greg, Not "necessary" perhaps, but nothing wrong with spoiling yourself. For all the work you are doing to build it, whats a few more bucks in the end going to hurt?

[Mickguard]

On the contrary, I consider them standard equipment. There's a definite improvement of tuning stability over regular tuners, at least for me, since I hate the fussiness of wrapping regular tuners anyway. I prefer Grovers, they're simpler to use than the screw-down type.

[Rick500]

I use Sperzel locking tuners on just about everything. Makes it really simple and quick to change strings.

[soapbarstrat]

Moderate string bending more than enough of a good reason for the lockers.

Plus I like the fact that on Sperzels, the gear is not held to the shaft with a screw. The gear and shaft are one piece of metal. But I can't afford to put Sperzels on all my guitars.

[Kramers Rule]

Thanks for the advice! I am going to install the tuners on my guitar.

I'll post some pics when the guitar nears completion!

[Mattia]

Only downside is that they're a) sort of unnecessary and generally heavier than they need to be.

[Mickguard]

Only downside is that they're a) sort of unnecessary and generally heavier than they need to be.

I use Grover mini locking tuners, they weigh less than standard Grovers, and they're lighter than the Gotohs that came with my strat.

'Unneccesary' doesn't apply -- tuners are indeed necessary, in one form or another, after that it's purely a matter of choice.

You choose to fuss with wrapping your strings and don't mind the risk that the wrappings will slip. And that's fine, that's they way it's been done for a long time now, and most of the time isn't really that big of a problem, especially if you never play on stage.

Another person might choose to see that all that fuss of wrapping the string around its tuner is outdated, and just isn't necessary anymore, now that locking tuners are available, provide better tuning stability in all cases, and don't really cost all that much (especially if you go with EZ-loks) in the overall cost of building or buying a guitar.

[coolio49085]

My planet waves locking tuners even cut my string automatically when I turn it.

[Mattia]

That's why I said 'sort of' unnecessary. I mean, I change strings every 2-3 months (more than one guitar, after all), takes all of 10 minutes to do, and it's not like any of my fixed bridge guitars have tuning stability issues. So that 'provide better tuning stability in all cases' is, frankly, utter nonsense. What's 'better' than a guitar (say, my acoustic, which is what I play most) that I only ever retune because I like futzing with drop tunings from time to time. Otherwise it stays put, and if I don't play it for weeks, I can pick it up and keep on playing. It's a problem that doesn't exist. Kind of like 21:1 ratio tuning machines being more 'accurate' when you can tune to the exact pitch using a regular 12:1 or even lower gear ratio machine.

As to weight, compare minis to minis; are the lockers still lighter? I mean, my Schaller mini locking machines are nice and light (as are Sperzels, I might add). If the weight difference isn't huge, cool! I'm still looking around for someone who sells Gotoh's 510 minis with locking post system, since they look interesting. I don't trust the quality on the Wilky import stuff; I tend to stick with the bigger, better brands for tuning machines (Gotoh, Schaller, have a few sets of grovers I'm deciding whether I like or not...). Tried the Planet Waves on one build, and they're nifty, but they're absolutely huge, massive, heavy tuners, and frankly didn't feel as solid as my 35 dollar Gotoh non-lockers. Stable enough, though.

Edited December 9, 2007 by Mattia

[mammoth guitars]

+1 on the Grover mini locking tuners, we use them as standard

[Mattia]

Intruiged, I shall have to try a set (for a trem guitar). Where do you get them, though? StewMac only has 'mid-size locking tuners'.

[rjhalsey]

Locking tuners are a must for the working guitarist. They are great for fast string changes.

[Mickguard]

Locking tuners are a must for the working guitarist. They are great for fast string changes.

Besides, with all the other things I have to deal with while I'm onstage singing, locking tuners provide a definite difference. There are tons of variables in play when you're on a stage with a full band as opposed to playing in your living room--if only because of the temperature changes that go on (seems to me that mahogany-necked guitars are more susceptible to that than maple?).

I ordered a set of EZ-Loks, partly because I found a seller willing to send me a 4x2 set for the same price as a 3x3. I want to try them out for myself, because I think the theory behind them makes a lot of sense.

I don't have any non-locking grover minis to compare to the locking grover minis (which I usually buy from StewMac by the way), so I can't say if there's a weight difference. I doubt it would be significant, since the Grover design uses a hollow post.

[GregP]

I found the EZ-Loks to be a bit fussy, still. I imagine once you become an old hand at it, they'd be fine. I agree that the theory is solid enough. Even without any practice, they were at least a TOUCH faster than standard tuners; that said, I can't imagine them ever being quite as fast as true locking tuners (for the most part-- some seem simpler than others).

[Mattia]

Locking tuners are a must for the working guitarist. They are great for fast string changes.

Besides, with all the other things I have to deal with while I'm onstage singing, locking tuners provide a definite difference. There are tons of variables in play when you're on a stage with a full band as opposed to playing in your living room--if only because of the temperature changes that go on (seems to me that mahogany-necked guitars are more susceptible to that than maple?).

I ordered a set of EZ-Loks, partly because I found a seller willing to send me a 4x2 set for the same price as a 3x3. I want to try them out for myself, because I think the theory behind them makes a lot of sense.

I don't have any non-locking grover minis to compare to the locking grover minis (which I usually buy from StewMac by the way), so I can't say if there's a weight difference. I doubt it would be significant, since the Grover design uses a hollow post.

You mean what StewMac calls 'mid-sized' grover lockers, then, I suppose? They're no heavier than the regular non-lockers, so at that point there's no benefit to buying the non-locking ones from a weight perspective (the chrome ones are actually 4 grams lighter. Oddly). They're about the same as a regular set of Gotoh 510's (full size), bit heavier than a stock set of Gotoh Minis, 15 grams lighter than a large set of Gotohs. Not too bad, but still heavier than the Sperzels, which are the lightest of the lot by a good bit. The Planet Waves machines are crazy heavy by comparison (50% heavier than the Sperzels).

I also never break strings (OK, in the 12 or so years I've been playing, once), and I don't find my non-locking guitars are more difficult to tune to pitch than the locking ones, and I don't mind changing strings much, so it remains a 'nice to have' rather than a 'must have' feature.

[GregP]

Yeah... it's all just semantics.

Some people have an "I'll never go back" moment, at which time the "nice to have" feels more like a "necessity". I'm sure everyone agrees that calling a luxury a "must have" is just a way of emphasizing how significant the difference is to that person.

[Mickguard]

Yeah... it's all just semantics.

Some people have an "I'll never go back" moment, at which time the "nice to have" feels more like a "necessity". I'm sure everyone agrees that calling a luxury a "must have" is just a way of emphasizing how significant the difference is to that person.

I look at it more like driving a car with airbags and seatbelts, versus driving an old beater with neither. Sure, those things aren't absolutely necessary, excepting, of course, for the people whose lives have been saved because of them. Sometimes progress is a good thing.

[Mattia]

Yeah... it's all just semantics.

Some people have an "I'll never go back" moment, at which time the "nice to have" feels more like a "necessity". I'm sure everyone agrees that calling a luxury a "must have" is just a way of emphasizing how significant the difference is to that person.

I look at it more like driving a car with airbags and seatbelts, versus driving an old beater with neither. Sure, those things aren't absolutely necessary, excepting, of course, for the people whose lives have been saved because of them. Sometimes progress is a good thing.

....except its nothing like that. An appropriate car analogy would be electrically controlled side mirrors; no need to get wet/open the window/whatever to adjust them, but they work just as well once they're set in place...

[Mickguard]

....except its nothing like that. An appropriate car analogy would be electrically controlled side mirrors; no need to get wet/open the window/whatever to adjust them, but they work just as well once they're set in place...

Ah no, you obviously don't have to play in front of people... I have to sing, try to play guitar, try to keep the crowd amused and keep the rest of band from panicing at every little mistake...last thing I need is to worry about is my guitar going out of tune. So locking tuners are a definite must-have necessity for me. And very much like a guitar's equivalent of a safety belt (I suppose that Gibson robo-tuner system is more like an airbag...)

I agree though, if all you're doing is playing at home, they're not really necessary, and most of the guitars I don't use for shows don't have them.

[thegarehanman]

mick, if your band is panicking at every little mistake, me thinks you need a new band.

Edited December 11, 2007 by thegarehanman

[Mattia]

....except its nothing like that. An appropriate car analogy would be electrically controlled side mirrors; no need to get wet/open the window/whatever to adjust them, but they work just as well once they're set in place...

Ah no, you obviously don't have to play in front of people... I have to sing, try to play guitar, try to keep the crowd amused and keep the rest of band from panicing at every little mistake...last thing I need is to worry about is my guitar going out of tune. So locking tuners are a definite must-have necessity for me. And very much like a guitar's equivalent of a safety belt (I suppose that Gibson robo-tuner system is more like an airbag...)

I agree though, if all you're doing is playing at home, they're not really necessary, and most of the guitars I don't use for shows don't have them.

Not these days much, no, but I have, and I have never, ever, ever had a problem with tuning stability that would've been solved by locking tuners. And as said, I don't break strings, so swapping them out quickly is not an issue. If the neck swells/moves because of heat, it isn't solved or prevented by locking tuners. Bringing things up to pitch/tuning accurately is no more difficult with regular tuners than it is with locking tuners.

So I'm sticking with wing mirrors, sorry.

[TemjinStrife]

I'm a very heavy string bender, and have noticed a significant increase in tuning stability (especially on the unwound G string) when I swapped the standards on my Epi Explorer for a set of gotoh mini lockers.

Only guitar I own now that stays in tune better is my Spirit Steinberger "cricket bat" with double-ball strings.

[Mickguard]

mick, if your band is panicking at every little mistake, me thinks you need a new band.

In the works...