Xanthus Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Ok, I hit another snag, and just like last build, it's a !*&%# tuner problem. I got 6 individual Schaller Mini M6 tuners from Warmoth, and they arrived today. These suckers have the SHORTEST posts I've ever seen! The string hole barely clears the headstock without the washer and top nut on. My headstock is just over 9/16" thick. What's going on here? I wanted to know if anyone had any objections to my routing a channel in the back of the headstock for the tuners to rest in, so they poke out about 1/8" higher, maybe 3/16". It's either that, or find a place that lets you specify the post height on the Sperzels, and go with them. The only drawback I can think of is that it's removing precious mass from the headstock. But if these tuners are made to fit into a headstock, it's going to be thin anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Ok, I hit another snag, and just like last build, it's a !*&%# tuner problem. I got 6 individual Schaller Mini M6 tuners from Warmoth, and they arrived today. These suckers have the SHORTEST posts I've ever seen! The string hole barely clears the headstock without the washer and top nut on. My headstock is just over 9/16" thick. What's going on here? I wanted to know if anyone had any objections to my routing a channel in the back of the headstock for the tuners to rest in, so they poke out about 1/8" higher, maybe 3/16". It's either that, or find a place that lets you specify the post height on the Sperzels, and go with them. The only drawback I can think of is that it's removing precious mass from the headstock. But if these tuners are made to fit into a headstock, it's going to be thin anyways. Too funny - Yeah... its the tuners that are too short, not the headstock that's too thick! LOL! I don't see a problem with routing channels on the back of the headstock. I've seen it on high end guitars before and if well exectued, it can look real slick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted January 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yeah, I've seen some crazy headstocks too, like the blackmachine ones! Nuts! Gotta love this look though. If I plan the channel out correctly, you would only be able to see it from the top side of the headstock, so even though I would hate to do it, it wouldn't look all THAT bad. Thanks for the advice, too. I didn't think it would be a problem, I just didn't know if others had better alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telesque Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I don't see a problem with routing channels on the back of the headstock. I've seen it on high end guitars before and if well exectued, it can look real slick. I would whole heartedly agree with this. if you can route a tight cavity for each individual tuner (and space for the peg, too, probably) and get that look where the back of your headstock doesn't have 'mountainous' hardware sticking off the back... That's a look I definitely get into. While it may be a lot tougher, I would much rather see something like that done with individual routes for each tuner (as if you pressed them down into play-dough) rather than one whole channel/'tuner trench' in which they all sit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 counter sink em in the front; 9/16 seems a lil thick for guitar to me; but thats why you mock assemble b4 finishing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted January 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 counter sink em in the front; 9/16 seems a lil thick for guitar to me; but thats why you mock assemble b4 finishing I'll see what I can do tomorrow. I might be able to countersink them if the strings don't brush against the edge of the hole, but it would be easier I think to route out a channel than countersink holes that are already drilled and hope they line up perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Have a look at the specs again. Your headstock is too thick. I think part of the problem you're having is that you're doing the work BEFORE you have the hardware (you only ordered these tuners a few days ago, right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 9/16" is a little on the thick side. But there's nothing wrong with that, if you counter-sink the holes they'll fit in fine. But since the holes are already drilled, your best bet (only bet?) is a reamer. Or you can make the headstock a bit more thin. Personally I keep all my basses at 5/8" thickness, I've never had any issues with that thickness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I am trying to figure out the math here. You said the headstock is between 9/16"-5/8" (you say slightly over 9/16"). You say the post is only 1/8"-3/16" above the headstock? Mick posted a diagram of the tuner that indicates the total stud and post is supposed to be 1.125" tall. The math is not adding up . Your headstock would have to be closer to 11/16 to 1" thick for the post to only protrude 1/8-3/16". My heastocks are thicknessed to 1/2"-5/8" depending on the tuners I am using (I always check the tuner to set my thickness, because I use several types of tuners). How much do you need to adjust the thickness? I have NEVER had to make my headstock less than 1/2" for any tuner, so I am assuming you are only adjusting maaybe 1/16"?? Sorry if I am missing something, I do get confused easily Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another doug Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 According to the diagram on Warmoth's website, that 28.58mm measurement is actually 23.5, and the string hole appears to be about 6mm less than that. This diagram is Stewmac's Schaller mini M6 diagram, not the one for the Schaller mini m6's from Warmoth. I don't know why they're different, but apparently they are. edit: I just noticed that the Warmoth tuners are "locking" mini M6's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MescaBug Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) Why don't you get another set of tuners and keep those for another project? Get some Sperzel or Planet Waves if you don't want to hack your headstock. They can fit on 11/16" thick headstock, which is bloody thick. And the Planet Waves have a 20mm posts. That should give you enough clearance. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,...cs.html#details http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,...cs.html#details Edited January 10, 2008 by MescaBug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted January 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I am trying to figure out the math here. You said the headstock is between 9/16"-5/8" (you say slightly over 9/16"). You say the post is only 1/8"-3/16" above the headstock? Mick posted a diagram of the tuner that indicates the total stud and post is supposed to be 1.125" tall. The math is not adding up . Your headstock would have to be closer to 11/16 to 1" thick for the post to only protrude 1/8-3/16". My heastocks are thicknessed to 1/2"-5/8" depending on the tuners I am using (I always check the tuner to set my thickness, because I use several types of tuners). How much do you need to adjust the thickness? I have NEVER had to make my headstock less than 1/2" for any tuner, so I am assuming you are only adjusting maaybe 1/16"?? Sorry if I am missing something, I do get confused easily Peace, Rich Nope, you're right Rich. I'm dead serious. My headstock is a hair under 5/8" and the top of the post is maybe 3/16" over the top of the headstock. I dunno if Schaller makes graduated posts and these are the small ones, but this is the same problem I had with the short posts of the Sperzel set I got for the first project. The headstock on the first was a Carvin, 9/16" thick. The reason I got the Schallers is because I didn't want to have to deal with the graduated posts. I realize that I was doing construction before I had the parts in hand, Mick. It's my fault entirely. However, I figured that since the medium and tall posts on my Sperzel set fit fine on a 9/16" thick headstock, I'd have no problems getting other tuners to fit on the same thickness headstock. I'll do some math out when I get back from running around for the day. I'd really rather not order a second set of tuners, especially at around $60 for a set. I'm definitely not getting Sperzels unless I can specify the post height. I'll look into the Planet Waves if I need to order another pair, but I think thicknessing the back of the headstock will pretty much guarantee that they'll work. Thanks all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I'm definitely not getting Sperzels unless I can specify the post height. on the two boxes of sperzels i have here they say 'special posts available to suit'. I have a graduated 6-inline set and a equal height 3x3 set. The important thing to remember with sperzels is that they are completely reversible for left or right handed use so you could get a 3x3 set and convert them to 6-inline if you wanted all the long posts... or you could even buy a 6 inline set with graduated posts (3 different post heights) and convert them to a 3x3 with graduated posts. I am a bit of a convert to sperzels recently. Always knew they were good but its made even better now i know they are reversible!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Somethings screwy. The specs for the M6 locking tuners give .950" for the post height. A 5/8" headstock ( .625" ) should leave .325" or just over 5/16" 9/16" is not on the thick side for a headstock, actually it is pretty typical. 5/8" is even fairly common. I went and measured every tuner I have, and couldn't find one that wouldn't accomodate a 5/8" headstock under the washer and locknut, with the top of the locknut right about where the post starts to narrow. Stew macs page says the M6 lockers do have graduated posts, but only list one length in the specs, so I guess it is possible you ended up with all short ones, and they are indeed too short. I would call Warmoth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Send them back and get them exchanged for the size you want. It may cost a little in p+p but it will save you a lot of hassle in the long run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted January 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Wez, how are they reversable? Wouldn't that put half the tuning keys one way and half the other? Or I'm completely missing something Thanks for bringing that to my attention, orgmorg! I'm going to call Warmoth and see if they did indeed send me the shortest posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemjinStrife Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) Sperzels can be disassembled and reassembled pretty easily to convert them to the "same side." This guy will custom order you a set of Sperzels in any type and/or color, and he's also got the Hipshot lockers (which I like since they fit up to a .70 string gauge with no post reaming): http://www.tkinstruments.com/id75.htm Also, check out the closeup of the back of the Teuffel Ni-Wa headstock in the "Odd Shaped Guitars" thread. They recess the tuners from the back, and it looks pretty cool. http://www.flickr.com/photos/davogtr/38582...57594528352076/ Edited January 10, 2008 by TemjinStrife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Do the threads start to grab at all when you install them? I seem to recall the last time I used Shaller minis from Warmoth(that was about 3 years ago) I used a headstock thickness right at 1/2". The threaded bushing seemed to start grabbing pretty close, I would bet it wouldn't have even grabbed at 5/8" headstock thickness(or if it did maybe started a thread at the most). The website says the shaft is supposed to be .925", and the female bushing is about .394". With the male bushing nuts thickness and a washer you probably eat up almost 1/8". Even with a 1/2" headstock I don't think you would be able to see much more than 3/8" worth of free shaft. I would thread the bushing together with at least four turns, measure that distance with your thickness calipers, and figure the headstock has to be between that thickness absolute max. and .4" dead min. I will take a look at my tuners and check them if I get a chance tonight. You may be on the right track with a little thinning to get you down closer to 1/2". Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted January 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Ok, I took a picture of the tuner, on the headstock. Excuse the unfinished headstock, haha. My measurements indicate that there's only 3/4" from the base of the post (where it sits up against the headstock) to the string hole. 3/4" on a 5/8" headstock.... Not to mention that a washer and nut has to go on top of that Whatever, man. I'd have to route a pretty significant channel to get these to fit properly. I just think I'm going to return 'em and get a set of TALL Sperzels from TK. Also, they don't have the screw tabs, I like the post idea better for some reason. Looks nicer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 yeah sperzels come apart easily. All you have to do is remove the screw for the button then there are a few small washers you need to be carefull not to lose and you can push the shaft right out the other side then reinsert it from the opposite side and reassemble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted January 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I actually just had a thought here: What about the buttons themselves? 3x3 buttons (reportedly, I haven't tried it) won't work on a 6il headstock. Once I get in contact with Warmoth on Monday and KNOW that they'll give me a refund, then I'll probably order from TK. His prices are cheaper than StewMac by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 not to fist a dead horse, but why cant you just take some thickness off the headstock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted January 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Well, I could, but to get the headstock to a point where I could get the washer and nut on and get the string holes to pop out enough to put a string through, I'd really be taking off more material than I'd be comfortable with. That's really the reason why. I'm a fan of headstock mass and also a fan of Sperzels, and since I conveniently run into construction problem after problem, I've got plenty of time before I need the tuners anyways, so it's no big deal to me to wait and order a new set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.