Little Question On Wet Sanding

[ibanezplayer]

I just have a little question on wet sanding. I wet sanded my guitar, with no other problems, i wet sanded with 400 and 600 grit Norton SandWet sand paper. after that i waxed it with Turtle Wax Scratch and Swirl Remover but im not sure it was for wood. My question is, do i need higher grit sand paper? or just better polish? because after I buffed the guitar and the scratches were faintly visible Throughout the entire guitar. Could you guys just give me like specific, sand paper and grits? and possibly the polish you used? that'd be great

what do i do

[CrazyManAndy]

Higher grits. Check out this thread:

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=33533

As far as polish goes, here is a good recipe:

http://www.reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.php?t=15068

Folks have used other products as well, such as Meguirs. Just try to avoid anything with silicone in it.

CMA

Edited January 11, 2008 by CrazyManAndy

[SnowGTR]

I just have a little question on wet sanding. I wet sanded my guitar, with no other problems, i wet sanded with 400 and 600 grit Norton SandWet sand paper. after that i waxed it with Turtle Wax Scratch and Swirl Remover but im not sure it was for wood. My question is, do i need higher grit sand paper? or just better polish? because after I buffed the guitar and the scratches were faintly visible Throughout the entire guitar. Could you guys just give me like specific, sand paper and grits? and possibly the polish you used? that'd be great

what do i do

Continue the wet sanding process with 800 grit and then 1200 grit wet/dry paper. Hopefully you will get a mirror finish after the 1200. You can go higher 1500 or 2000 but I think 1200 should do. Polish will not give you a good finish if you still have scratches. I have gotten deep rich shine by buffing by hand and not using any polish at all.

I use Meguiars polish, but I forget which number it is. I have been told that there are better products out there.

IMO Polish is an enhancement not a finish.

[mlennon]

400/600 grit is probably to coarse for wet sanding/ polishing and unless you have an excessive amount of paint applied and you may experience rubbing through your topcoat before you get the finish your after as with every grade of paper you use you are removing material.

Normally, if the finish is good enough, you can start flatting with 1200/1500 and polish from there and only use a coarser grit for flatting heavy orange peel or sinkage. The theory behind going through progressively finer grits is that you flatten out the scratches left by the previous grade and then do the same with the polish starting with a cutting compound (to remove the flatting marks left by the 1500/2000 wet or dry), then a finer compound ( to remove ther swirls left by the compound) then a glaze etc. Also note that the mirror finish will only become apparent once you start to use polish, you may get a slight reflection once you get to the finest grades of wet or dry paper but with paper your looking for a flat (matt) & even surface before you start to use polishes.

[rhoads56]

Whoa.

After the guitar is sprayed, and dry enough to do the final wetsand and buff, i dont EVER go heavier than 1500 grit... in fact i start with 2000 grit, and if need be, do 1500g touch ups before going back to 2000g. If you need to start with anything heavier than that, you havent sprayed the guitar properly.

[guitar2005]

Whoa.

After the guitar is sprayed, and dry enough to do the final wetsand and buff, i dont EVER go heavier than 1500 grit... in fact i start with 2000 grit, and if need be, do 1500g touch ups before going back to 2000g. If you need to start with anything heavier than that, you havent sprayed the guitar properly.

If have orange peel spots on some small areas of the guitar or maybe a run, I'll use 800 grit to start. Once everything is level, I continue to 1000, then 2000. After that, its usually the tripoli bar on the buffing station, followed by diamond, then maybe some super fine swirl remover.

I'd like to forgoe the tripoli and go straight to diamond. Has anyone here done that? Should I try to go to 2500 and 5000 grit or is the tripoli just better and faster?

[Mattia]

If it's too bumpy/not smooth enough to start with 1500 or 2000 grit paper, I level everything with 800 (or 1200, or 600, whatever's appropriate, really), then spray two final thin coats over the top of the fully levelled finish, and then level with 2000. Works well for me.

[Setch]

Ditto.

Prior to final coats I level everything with 800. Spray final coats being extra careful to flow out evenly and avoid runs/sags/orangepeel. Then, start levelling with 2000. If that is taking too long I'll drop back to 1500.

Ideally I should only be removing overspray and very slight surface texture, otherwise it's back to 800, and anther shot at the final coats.

[rooster]

400 and 600 are for PRIMER not PAINT! I never go below 1000 once clear is on it. And for God's sake, don't use that cheap assed Turtle Wax crap! Go to an auto body supply store and pick up some 3M Perfect-It COMPOUND and THEN polish it.

I finish sand with 1200 and then buff. And I damn well take exception to the above comment about "If you need to start with anything heavier than that, you havent sprayed the guitar properly."

Really. How many years have you been shooting paint? How many of your paint jobs got featured articles in NATIONAL magazines? I've had a few and even had several Best Paint awards at shows, and I'm not talking some Autozone parking lot either. Darryl Starbird 5A events. I ALWAYS start the final sanding with 1000 grit to remove ANY orange peel with a hard pad, switch to a soft pad with 1000, then to a soft pad with 1200. Buff and instant mirror. Starting with anything higher is just wasting time to get the same result anyway.

Here's one of mine that was displayed at this years NAMM booth if anyone thinks I'm blowing smoke.

Back to the original topic, you've probably destroyed the finish. You didn't mention what type of paint/clear you used. You may have to sand it again with 1000 and reshoot it.

[westhemann]

Really. How many years have you been shooting paint? How many of your paint jobs got featured articles in NATIONAL magazines?

Rhoads can answer for himself I am sure,but he IS a proffessional(sp?) guitar builder,and has guitars featured in national magazines(international too,Perry?).

His guitars are sold worldwide...

I don't know about spraying properly...all of my finishes need quite a bit of level sanding and so forth,but I am willing to accept that Perry is better at it than me...if He wasn't,I would not have commisioned a guitar from him.

Rooster...that pic is blurry...Do you have a better one?Those guitars look very nice,which one is the one you did?Or was it all of them?I am confused by the Rico guitar in the Moser booth.Isn't that a Gary Holt V?

[Mattia]

400 or 600 grit scratch pattern don't matter in a clearcoat as long as you've got something that burns in, and you're going to keep coating. But 1000 or 1200 to level stubborn stuff prior to final coats is too much work for me. Done it before, and it doesn't improve my results.

[rhoads56]

400 or 600 grit scratch pattern don't matter in a clearcoat as long as you've got something that burns in, and you're going to keep coating. But 1000 or 1200 to level stubborn stuff prior to final coats is too much work for me. Done it before, and it doesn't improve my results.

Sanding with anything lighter than 1000 grit with 2K paints can lead to delamination as well. 2k will fill 400 grit beautifully. I use 400-600 for clear coats

Really. How many years have you been shooting paint? How many of your paint jobs got featured articles in NATIONAL magazines?

Rhoads can answer for himself I am sure,but he IS a proffessional(sp?) guitar builder,and has guitars featured in national magazines(international too,Perry?).

His guitars are sold worldwide...

I don't know about spraying properly...all of my finishes need quite a bit of level sanding and so forth,but I am willing to accept that Perry is better at it than me...if He wasn't,I would not have commisioned a guitar from him.

Yup, national magazines here dude, in fact, they pay me to voice my opinion on how to spray. You get paid to show off your stuff in magazines? I just had a guy fly from Sweden (im in Aust.) to have his guitar refinished. But now we are just taking part in a pissing match, which is worthless...

A properly sprayed final coat should need any rougher than 2000 grit for the most part, with touchup areas of 1500 grit. Without a doubt, if you have to start with courser grit than 1500, then you have too much orange peel. Otherwise, why do it? Because you feel like wasting time?

[Drak]

If I had to take a guess why different people need to start their finals at different grits, I would guess:

1. Sprayers' prior experience level with their own equipment and finish

2. Sprayers amount of level sanding UP TO the final coats

3. Type of finish being sprayed

4. Quality and type of finishing equipment at hand

Everybody has different experience levels and are using different finishes, so it is understandable why people will have different starting points, largely depending on their amount of experience, and the type of finish their using.

Jeremy and I would always disagree on finishing issues, IMO, because I would always look at it as trying to help amateur 'backyard guy' builders achieve nice finishes on a budget, and Jeremy would typically recommend top of the line professional equipment be purchased.

Just two different viewpoints on the same subject...both are right to varying degrees.

[rooster]

Well, not looking for a pissing contest, just pointing out there is more than ONE way to skin a cat. I can achieve 100% DOI on my paint jobs and that's WITH graphics underneath. You'll never remove all the orange peel in paint without using a lower grit. I do have more pics of that and other guitars I've done for MCS, you can click here.....Heavymetalhotrods and see for yourself.

The red V in the pic above is NOT a Rico, it is a Moser V. You can check them out at MCS site Rico didn't have a booth this year. I painted the Flag Bastard V. I do more than guitars, and have been painting professionally for over twenty years.

I checked out your website Rhoads, and you have some nice stuff, just hard to judge the paint with small pics and the angles. If you want to see my other stuff here's the link to the whole site.....Full site

I use PPG Concept Urethane base and clearcoats and the method I described has not failed me in all my years of painting. Just trying to offer up a little advice, save folks some time, and make stuff shiny.

[MiKro]

Well, not looking for a pissing contest, just pointing out there is more than ONE way to skin a cat. I can achieve 100% DOI on my paint jobs and that's WITH graphics underneath. You'll never remove all the orange peel in paint without using a lower grit. I do have more pics of that and other guitars I've done for MCS, you can click here.....Heavymetalhotrods and see for yourself.

The red V in the pic above is NOT a Rico, it is a Moser V. You can check them out at MCS site Rico didn't have a booth this year. I painted the Flag Bastard V. I do more than guitars, and have been painting professionally for over twenty years.

I checked out your website Rhoads, and you have some nice stuff, just hard to judge the paint with small pics and the angles. If you want to see my other stuff here's the link to the whole site.....Full site

I use PPG Concept Urethane base and clearcoats and the method I described has not failed me in all my years of painting. Just trying to offer up a little advice, save folks some time, and make stuff shiny.

Bottom line is if you are correct on the mix, and equipment adjustment, temp and humidity your ORANGE PEEL should not exist. Hence better coverage( and level), less level sanding and a better finish. But That all depends on the base prep being correct. Then again what the hell do I know, Ive got the flu and drugged up and have never finished a piece of wood.

LOL just had to mess with ya!!!!!

MK

[westhemann]

Yeah rooster...I have seen those guitars before on moser's site...I do love the green V.Good work,but you know that.I have not been to Mosers site in a long time...I did not know he was doing a version of the Rico...

I do notice the small differences in the cutouts after seeing a good frontal of it.I have to say I think I like the Rico Holt model better...but probably only because The one on his site is an import model.his handmade guitars are super nice.