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Posted

I am planning WAY into the future for my second build and thinking from a theoretical standpoint a 25.5" scale should be best. This is for a dual-purpose metal/blues/jazz-fusion sort of guitar. Basically an HSH w/ coil-tap Super-Strat that I want as clear sounding as possible.

HOWEVER, I have probably medium-sized hands and a fairly short pinkie. I am planning on this guitar to be used for some rhythm, but mainly riffing, and doing runs up & down the neck (i.e. practicing scales, learning Hendrix and Alice in Chains type stuff), so while I will be doing some open chords and 1st string bar chords, I will also be in the second octave in the 12th string and up a bit too, so I would like something with decent space between the frets up there.

Two questions:

1) In practice, how difficult is it for people with small hands to play 25.5" scale guitars? I have played Strats and Jackson Dinkys a few times without really noticing any problems, but only for limited periods of time.

2) How much tonal difference is there really between, for example, a Stratocaster or Super-Strat with a 24.75" scale and a 25" or 25.5" scale? Presumably somebody has done the same or similar build aside from the neck scale; if not I guess any educated guesses would be the best I can hope for.

If there are any threads addressing this, please feel free to drop the URL. I did do a search, but got too many results so my apologies if this is a redundant thread; I could not think of better/narrower terms.

-Cheers

Posted (edited)

Question #1: I think the neck profile (thickness and width) makes a bigger difference than the scale if you have small hands/finger. Difference between 25.5 and 24.75 is only 0.75. On a 24 frets 24.75 scale guitar, we're talking about an average of 0.03" difference between each fret. Not that much I would say. If you have a small hands, I would suggest a thinner neck profile and a 1-5/8" nut instead of a different scale. But to answer your question, yes a shorter scale will be easier to play if you have small hands. But harder to play for people with larger hands. I started playing guitar on a classical when I was 7 years old. Talk about small hands on a baseball bat size neck! Never had any problems with that.

Question #2:

- The major difference between scales is the string tension. A 10-46 set of strings will feel more sloppy on a short scale. Some people like it, some don't . Personnaly, I strongly hate short scale. An alternative would be to use a heavier string gauge.

- String will vibrate less on a short scale. That means a lower acoustic output and sustain, a little more trebly sound, and lower action without fret buzz.

- Opposite for a longer scale; Strings vibrate more so more output and sustain, more bassier sound, and harder to get a very low action without fret buzz.

- Tuning is also a major factor. If you want a low tuning on a short scale, strings may feel slack and sound lifeless. In that case, a longer scale would be better.

It's a matter of taste. You have to try it to know exactly what you prefer. I always liked Les Paul's, but never got one because after trying it for a few hours, I was never comfortable with the short scale and the thicker neck profile. But when I first put my hands on a Jackson, I knew exactly that this type of neck profile was perfect for my hands.

Edited by MescaBug
Posted

You can go with a 24.75" scale but use thin(in width) frets...then you will have as much space(working area)between frets as a 25.5" with wider frets.

I made a semi-strat once with a 24.75" scale....the tonality is not so different.

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Thanks for the replies so far. One final question . . . Do any of you find it is difficult going from one scale length to another (e.g. Les Paul to a Stratocaster to a PRS, or similar sort of scale length differences), in particular switching between guitars? Or is it something that most people tend to adjust to pretty readily? In other words, should I stick with a scale I usually play or just expect it to be no big deal and be able to adjust after a little time on the guitar with the new scale if I go that route?

-Cheers

Edited by Dave I
Posted

Tension affects the timbre of the instrument. Having a longer scale increases tension, reinforces fundamental frequencies and cleans up lower notes somewhat. The slinkiness of a LP is due to a shortish scale length. Baritones have longer scale lengths to allow lower tunings otherwise the low tension over a short scale would turn them to unplayable mud. Shorter scales with lower tensions allow wider and more expressive bends - although this doesn't mean you can't be expressionate with longer scales of course! Think LP blues.

Other factors such as the fret spacing, width of the first position affect playability (as mentioned previously) of course. Timbre won't be hugely different between the two scales but the difference is in there nonetheless.

If you want space up above twelfth fret, how about popping jumbos on frets 1-12 and having narrower frets from 13 upwards? This gives you a little more breathing space :-D

Posted

Personally I find the shorter Gibson scale length quite difficult; it may only be a few millimetres, but there's just not enough space to cram my fingers in for "A" shape barre chords above about the 5th fret. Gibsons also have narrower string spacing than Fender's "F-spacing" at the bridge end, but that really is a tiny difference.

My other guitar is a beater nylon-string classical, and that has (almost) the same scale length as a Fender.

  • 2 months later...
Posted

I realize there will not be THAT much difference, but how much of a compromise, good or bad, in sound or comfort, is the 25" scale vs. the 24.75" & 25.5"? Any pro's or con's?

-Cheers

Posted
I realize there will not be THAT much difference, but how much of a compromise, good or bad, in sound or comfort, is the 25" scale vs. the 24.75" & 25.5"? Any pro's or con's?

-Cheers

Before I start, I have to say that I have fairly slim and long fingers

I play all three scales on a regular basis, sometimes, in the same show. :D

I like the feel of a shorter scale but high register notes have less room for the fingers. You have to adapt a little to make sure your fingers fret the notes properly and that they don't go slightly over the fret and mute the note.

That being said, for some runs like in Mr. Crowley where you have to span 5 frets from fret 1 to 5, its easier to reach and play. I use medium/highest fretwire for 24.75" scale guitars.

The 25" scale is a nice in-between but somehow, I prefer 24.75" or 25.5" to 25". That could also be because of the guitar itself and not the scale.

The 25.5 scale, I like for its tightness and strong fundamental notes. In terms of playing, its what I learned on and what I am accustomed to. I like it and have no issues with it.

I have no problems when switching from one guitar to the next and I don't see why anyone would. The difference isn't huge.

Posted
Thanks for the replies so far. One final question . . . Do any of you find it is difficult going from one scale length to another (e.g. Les Paul to a Stratocaster to a PRS, or similar sort of scale length differences), in particular switching between guitars? Or is it something that most people tend to adjust to pretty readily? In other words, should I stick with a scale I usually play or just expect it to be no big deal and be able to adjust after a little time on the guitar with the new scale if I go that route?

-Cheers

I have fair sized hands, I can pick up a basketball with my left hand. I still have the guitar that I learned to play on 35 years ago, a 24" scale Musicmaster with an "A" neck (1.5" nut). As a result I learned to use my thumb on the bottom E. I normally use a .10 on the top and have no problem doing sweet and clear bends on the 22nd fret. Easy to use the whole fretboard.

I also have no problem switching between my 25.5" scale Jazzmaster, Strats, and Teles 21 & 22 fret necks. The longer scale does have more resonance and I don't use my thumb as much so just a slightly different technique is required. Of course a lot depends on your style but I find the shorter scale sounds punchier.

I think it's good to have both options.

I always go as narrow as possible. Nowadays that's pretty much a 1 5/8" nut.

That "A" neck is one of the nicest things I've ever held in my hand. If I could find one in the 25.5" scale I'd be the happiest man on earth. :D

Posted

I cant stand thin strings on 24.75 scale guitars... they just feel floppy. My favourite and current string configuration is 60 - 52 - 34 - 23 - 15 - 11.5 , which I really like, but its a pain to get hold of strings of these gauges, and I had to order them all individually. The thinnest strings I can tolerate are those skinny top heavy bottom ones, which are a 10 to 52 set if I remember correctly, and while theyre pretty good for solo's and the like, theyre still a little too sloppy for rhythm playing in my opinion.

Posted

i can feel a huge difference between 25.5 and 24.75. i hate longer scales. i am a small guy. i have wide hands, but really small. sometimes i can barley reach some chords on the 25.5 scale guitars. i just finished a bolt on 25.5" guitar 2 days ago, and after playing my 24.75" guitar, i hate the longer one. it feels like a bass to me. really long and hard to reach. but its just because im so small.

Posted
i can feel a huge difference between 25.5 and 24.75. i hate longer scales. i am a small guy. i have wide hands, but really small. sometimes i can barley reach some chords on the 25.5 scale guitars.

Yeah, but at least you're ripped. :D

i just finished a bolt on 25.5" guitar 2 days ago, and after playing my 24.75" guitar, i hate the longer one. it feels like a bass to me. really long and hard to reach. but its just because im so small.

Does it feel uncomfortable to you all up and down the neck, or just on open chords and the first few frets?

I think Wes's suggestion of using a 24.75" scale but using thin width frets, or even Prosthera's idea of using jumbo frets on the first 12 frets and switching to narrower frets from 13 upwards, might be a good way to get the most bang for my buck out of the 24.75" scale. In particular, it lets me stick with the scale I am most familiar with, and I am really comfortable on my Heritage and Hamer (both 24.75" scale guitars).

Anyway, thanks for the replies.

-Cheers

Posted

i guess its just from the 9th up to the first thats uncomfortable. nut width could affect it also. the higher frets feel ok. but i dont think i'll ever make a 25.5 guitar for myself. just doesnt feel right.

Posted

In my experience, width is more important than length.

Wow... that sounded really gay.

For me, the neck profile and nut width effects the playability more than scale length. (Yea - that sounded better)

It's all relative to the size of your fingers. Long fingers would probably be more comfortable with a longer scale. Thicker fingers would probably like a wide spacing. Some guy that's 5'2" with fat fingers would probably need a 24" scale with a classical-width nut. Me, I'm 6'4", around 255lbs, with proportionately sized fingers & hands. However, because of my sheer size, they're much larger than the "average sized" guy of 5'10" & 165lbs. That makes me want a really wide neck with a longer scale.

Add to all that the fact that some players, regardless of their size, will like a fat neck and some will like a thin. There's no real answer to the question other than personal taste.

Your best bet is to go to a shop that has a wide variety of dimensions to choose from and play them all. See what you like from first-hand experience. Take a notebook with you and write down your findings. Then, when it's time to build your neck, you can have one that fits your likes & needs exactly.

Posted
Your best bet is to go to a shop that has a wide variety of dimensions to choose from and play them all. See what you like from first-hand experience. Take a notebook with you and write down your findings. Then, when it's time to build your neck, you can have one that fits your likes & needs exactly.

There you go, we have a winner :D

Posted
For me, the neck profile and nut width effects the playability more than scale length. (Yea - that sounded better)

+1 on that.

I tend to prefer the USA standard strat neck profile and a neck width that is similiar to the strat. That's the way I built my explorer and it feels great to me.

Posted
In my experience, width is more important than length.

Wow... that sounded really gay.

For me, the neck profile and nut width effects the playability more than scale length. (Yea - that sounded better)

It's all relative to the size of your fingers. Long fingers would probably be more comfortable with a longer scale. Thicker fingers would probably like a wide spacing. Some guy that's 5'2" with fat fingers would probably need a 24" scale with a classical-width nut. Me, I'm 6'4", around 255lbs, with proportionately sized fingers & hands. However, because of my sheer size, they're much larger than the "average sized" guy of 5'10" & 165lbs. That makes me want a really wide neck with a longer scale.

Add to all that the fact that some players, regardless of their size, will like a fat neck and some will like a thin. There's no real answer to the question other than personal taste.

Your best bet is to go to a shop that has a wide variety of dimensions to choose from and play them all. See what you like from first-hand experience. Take a notebook with you and write down your findings. Then, when it's time to build your neck, you can have one that fits your likes & needs exactly.

could not have put it any better. i am only 5'4, and 145. i have skinny boney fingers. i like smaller scales.

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