Trying To Get Into Building Guitars

[Rick500]

Check this out, Xanthus.

[Xanthus]

Check this out, Xanthus.

GIVE IT TO ME :D

[Jon]

Lighting and a center point mark? That will be incredibly helpful for most routers.

[Ryan D]

Gah, I hate the whole 22 vs 24 frets arguments everywhere. Harmonic nodes..polepieces..incomplete sentences!

Well, it's hard for me to say what I want to do now. There are so many options it's really mindblowing. The Stratocaster's always been a classic in the history of guitars, and I respect that. So has the Telecaster, but I've tried them out before and I find their necks very uncomfortable. Then there's always the Ibanez Jem, which seems to have a reputation as the guitar for shredders by some arbitrary decision. I guess there's the LP too but I don't know. Single-cuts have never appealed to me for some reason.

It seems like a Strat would be the easiest to build - plenty of specialized parts for the Strat are easy to find and plentiful, I could buy a high-quality premade neck and whatnot. I don't want to build a guitar and find that I suddenly realize I like something else right after, though.

I'm trying to book a time to run around the nearest guitar shop and flail my arms while flinging picks at random guitars on the racks, but the nearest guitar shop with a good selection is somewhat far away. I guess it'll have to wait for the weekend.

[Ryan D]

Sorry for the massive pause there - I've been eyeing different guitars and pickups over the past week and a half, and for some reason, I am starting to lean towards a Variax implant. Crazy (possibly stupid), but yeah, it's been done before, and I really like the idea of having all those tones at the flip of a switch.

As far as designs go a Strat is still what I am leaning towards. My friend just got a $3,300 PRS Custom (forget whether it's 22 or 24) and I want to punch him in the face for it. I'm going to go stea--err, play it some tonight and see if a high-quality PRS design changes my mind about the design.

Have you guys ever worked with the Variax electronics before? I've seen multiple topics scattered around the forum about them, but they're all basically asking the same question about buying the electronics separately. If I'm smart I can probably pull off a design that allows swapping between normal pickups and the Variax stuff.

[Xanthus]

I know it's been done before, what you're asking about the Variax transplants, but honestly it's never interested me so much, and I can't point you in the right direction

I would want to question why you'd want to do such a thing, though. I have the Line 6 POD, and it's a fantastic piece of equipment. I love having so many different patches, but at the same time, because a guitar is something handbuilt, I want to know that I can get one particular sound out of it. I don't know if it's me being sentimental or being old-school and not wanting to go FULLY digital, but I feel there's a bond you can make with a guitar that you piece together that you might not get with something you hog out and stick a whole bunch of circuitry into. I dunno, it's hard to describe what I'm getting at, but I feel that building a traditional guitar would be more rewarding than a variax transplant.

PS. Forget about those nodes and all that crap. If you build a test guitar with a swimming pool neck route so you can move the neck pickup to the 22nd/24th fret position, I doubt you'll hear any difference at all. My only reason for liking 24 fret necks is to get a whole 2 octaves without having to bend the string.

[Ryan D]

Yeah. My current electric is a 24-fretter and playing on my friend's Mexican Strat really, really pisses me off (only 21 frets).

I suppose you're right about goring the guitar with the router to put all that stuff inside it. The body might not even be able to handle it. Damn, that places me back on the long, lonely road of searching for the perfect pickups.

Except if I want 24 frets I don't know how to go about getting a 24-fret neck. They sell 24-fret neck-through necks on Carvin, but..that's neck-through, and something tells me I'd really screw things up if I tried to build a body with one of those. I feel like buliding a neck would be too hard, also. I don't know.

[Xanthus]

I'm not doubting the ability of the Variax idea to work, the body will definitely "hold up" to all the stuff you need to put in it.

Warmoth offers a 24-fret extension on their bolt-ons, but at the expense of a neck pickup. And if you're building a Strat-style guitar it's pretty hard to screw up a neckthrough. Carvin makes the best necks I've ever played on, and they have no neck angle so they'll work with Strat bridges. Just gotta slap some body wings on (secure them with dowels ), cut it out, and you're halfway done!

[Ryan D]

Hmm...wow, is it really that easy? I should re-read that section in the book when they build the neckthrough. I did notice it was abnormally short, heh.

In that case, do you think that's the best option? Not only do I get the awesome Carvin neck, but I get my 24 frets so therefore I'm happy. Is there any kind of drawback or anything from the plan of going 24 on a Strat? Any scale-length issues? Or is it simply the neck pickup gets moved down an inch? By the way, thanks bud for being so resourceful. I have no clue what I'd do without you

[Xanthus]

Yes, it's really that easy I'm kinda kicking myself that I didn't get a premade neck for my newest build, because I'd be done by now, hahaha. The neck carve on the Carvin is middle-of-the-road, not a fatback and not a Wizard. It's pretty well rounded, pun semi-intended.

Any of the neck options you would want on a Carvin guitar you can also get on a nack blank. Par example, I got an ebony board with no face dots and med-jumbo frets.

For a fancier option you can go with http://www.soulmateguitars.com/

I was going to order from Doug if my neckthrough construction didn't go well. He has a lot of great options and really good prices. Fortunately I fretted and filed my own frets no problem, but I haven't strung it up yet, and I'm praying that I won't have to send it out for a refret after all my work.

I do think that a premade blank would be the best way to go, honestly. Here is a fantastic tutorial on making a neckthrough guitar with a premade blank. It's a 7-string, but the principals are the same. I'd pay attn to how he connects the wings to the neck. I've used biscuits, he uses a strip of maple, but I'd recommend dowels. I feel they're much more secure.

As far as design considerations, this is what you'd be looking at. 2 more frets means a deeper cutaway on the lower horn so you can actually REACH those frets With a strat-style body, that's really the only concern I'd address. Also, with a neck through you will never have a bulky bolt-on heel AGAIN. It's simply fantastic. I should take a picture of the secondhand Carvin I have just to gloat about it There are no scale length issues to worry about with having more or less frets. Just keep in mind that the Carvin uses the PRS-style 25" scale.

Regarding the picture, you might want to think about pickups. One inch more or less can affect the overall design RADICALLY. I still feel that chopping off the 2 frets from my neck was the worst mistake I've made on my flying V build, because it honestly messed EVERYTHING up. So on a 25" scale, 24 fret guitar, you've got 6 inches to play with, to stick pickups in. That's why I linked you that picture. A slanted Strat bridge pickup takes up about the same amount of space as a humbucker. That, plus two single coils.... looks really cramped to me. 2 humbuckers fit fine, a hum and single, two singles, but 3 pickups? You need to realize that not only is the scale a half inch shorter, it's also 2 frets longer, meaning you've lost 1.5" of pickup placement. If this really bugs you, then I'd get in touch with Soulmate, because Carvin doesn't offer different scale lengths.

And hey, it's all par for the course. I'm a relative noob to this game as well, and I can't count out how many times Dan, Wez, Maiden, Rick, Erik, just to name a few, have saved my ass from making more dumb mistakes than usual. Just passing on the good cheer, is all.

Well, that.... and I'm so close to 900 posts!

PS. Where exactly is Hippietown, MA?

[Ryan D]

Holy balls, that is one insane piece of wood! And a beautiful guitar along with that. Thanks for that link! Man, the gallery page makes me drool, hahah.

Argh, now that I'm thinking about all of it, maybe a Strat isn't the best option. Those pickups look uncomfortable as hell. I feel torn between two worlds. One keeps pushing for that Strat...the other wants a PRS-like design. And I just realized that a 24-fret Strat isn't going to use a normal Strat pickguard. Hmm.

I'm trying my hardest to get to a guitar store with every guitar I can think of in stock, but it's hard to snatch the time. I'll shoot for Saturday - I'll give you an in-depth update then!

Ah - and the hippietown thing - hah, that was just a joke mainly on my part. My town is kind of famous for being associated with hippies, so I just put my thing as Hippietown. I'm in Western mass, not too far from UMass, actually.

[Xanthus]

Ah cool! One of my good friends lives in Springfield, and actually goes to UMass out there There's a Daddy's down in Springfield I know, that might be your best shot. I don't know the frequency of mom-and-pop music shops out west. Good luck!

You can always direct-mount the pickups, or get rings, if the pickguard idea isn't working out. I myself am not a huge fan of pickguards, and EMG single coils look awesome when direct-mounted.

[Ryan D]

Hmm. Another dramatic switch in plans has come:

This is all temporary, before I finalize plans I will give every guitar type I can access an equal opportunity to attempt stealing my heart, but for now, here's what I'm thinking.

Body Style: Fender Stratocaster, Swamp Ash

Neck: Carvin 22 frets (25.5" scale length) bolt-on, with ebony fretboard, no inlays

Finish: Transparent blue-burst

Bridge: Wilkinson/Gotoh Strat Tremolo Bridge

Tuners: Sperzel Lok-Trim tuners

Knobs: Chrome knobs with abalone tops

Pickups are a whole different world that threatens to kill me. Therefore, I will handle that decision slowly and carefully later in the process. I'll probably do an H/S/S Strat but route the cavity so that I could switch to S/S/S if I wanted to for some reason.

Also, I was thinking of getting a piece of abalone or something and making a single custom inlay to place at the twelfth fret. The design I was thinking of was using the biohazard symbol. It's either that or birds, since I always thought the birds design was cool. Here's an example of the symbol I was thinking of putting at the 12th fret: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm..._symbol.svg.png

But yeah, I just want to make sure that this is really 100% what I want to do, os I will make a round trip to many guitar stores and then finalize my decision. Thanks for the support guys!

[Xanthus]

RE: Inlay. You realize you're going to have to inlay around the frets on an already-radiused fretboard, right? That's honestly just itching for disaster, and premade necks aren't exactly cheap. I'd recommend a body inlay if you really want to do one, or headstock, even, just some place big and flat so you can practice on scrap wood first.

Also, abalone seems a bit too elegant for a biohazard symbol But I like the abalone knobs/blue/chrome color scheme, it's going to be sharp!

Does Carvin offer 25.5" on their necks? I never even really paid attention to it, the 25" just fits so well to my not-exactly-gargantuan hands. My roommate/keyboardist, on the other hand, has what we call "spider monkey fingers."

The pickup routing idea is a smart move, especially for the option of pickup switching. Don't want to have a Frankenstrat pickup route under there, do ya? hahahaha

And definitely see if you can order as many parts as you can from Carvin. Their accessory prices are very reasonable.

[Rick500]

Yeah, their bolt-on necks are 25.5" scale length. The through-body necks are 25".

[doug]

Except if I want 24 frets I don't know how to go about getting a 24-fret neck. They sell 24-fret neck-through necks on Carvin, but..that's neck-through, and something tells me I'd really screw things up if I tried to build a body with one of those. I feel like buliding a neck would be too hard, also. I don't know.

Thing is, if you want a 24 fret bolt on without an extension that's just a normal thing we do. However, this type of neck will NOT fit into your vanilla "Strat" neck pocket because they are sized for the more common width of 2-1/4" and have the extra heel consistent with a 24 fret neck. So, if you are going to build a guitar and want a bolt then 24 frets is doable. If you want to try through neck then of course that is too. (this type of neck would fit a guitar like an Ibanez RG which has a longer neck and a wider neck pocket)

Those 24 fret fingerboard extended retrofit necks have bare fingerboard sticking way out the end covering what would otherwise be a pickup. Because the nut is a finite distance from the bridge, the only direction an extension can go in this situation is back towards the bridge.

-Doug

[Ryan D]

Hmm...this is interesting.

I think I've come to the decision to stick with 22 frets, but still, ordering through you has piqued my interest. At first, I didn't think I'd have enough money for the extra price, but now that I think about it, it's not a huge price difference for the better craftsmanship and care that goes into the neck. It means I'd have to wait a little bit longer before I could place my order, but I wouldn't mind.

What do your options look like for custom inlays? I tried looking at the Bryan England website but I'm lost. Your Model 06 Buckeye Top (which looks fantastic)'s biohazard inlays was what I was thinking, except only one of them, and the rest would just be dots or something. I'm not fully decided, but would you be able to accomplish that?

Thanks

[Ryan D]

Well guys, it's been a long journey up until this point, but I'm finally ready to order the first bunch of parts.

I've selected out the Carvin Bolt-on with the ebony fretboard and abalone dot inlays. I have one quick question though - what do you think of Carvin's body blanks?

I see a pre-glued Swamp Ash blank for $90. While that's much more than other websites I've been looking at, it's already glued and just seems more convenient since I'm already ordering the neck from there anyway. Would you advise against it, or does it seem like a fine idea? I can afford it (finally).

Thanks guys. It's hard to contain my excitement for finally embarking into the magical world of guitar-building and deadly power tools.

[Xanthus]

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts....tar+Body+Blanks

If you haven't checked already.

I'm looking there, Carvin, Warmoth, and StewMac, and $90 seems to be the going price. I don't think it's THAT bad, seeing as it's thicknessed and s4s, but I can get a body's worth of wood for half that at the place down the street. We're not all that lucky, I guess Kinda makes me wonder if wood that cheap is good for building guitars with, actually.

I'd go for it. Combine shipping costs and all, and get all the hardware you can while you're there.

I might consider Warmoth, though, because they can at least route the neck pocket (and pickups) for you, if the pocket fits the Carvin neck specs. Takes out a bit of the hard part. No word on if it's extra, though.

http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/bodies/bodyblanks.cfm

The link /\

[Mickguard]

I might consider Warmoth, though, because they can at least route the neck pocket (and pickups) for you, if the pocket fits the Carvin neck specs. Takes out a bit of the hard part. No word on if it's extra, though.

Look, either you're building, or you're not...

One big reason for routing the pocket for yourself, is that you'll be routing the pocket for exactly the neck you have on hand. And getting that perfect should be part of your motivation for building --because you know that all factory guitars have cut corners and sacrificed accuracy for the sake of cost. You can take the time to make your work perfect, or as close to that as you're comfortable.

Letting someone else do the routing is more like putting together a parts guitar. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with modifying an existing guitar either (one of my favorite things to do in fact).

The only thing I'd suggest buying the Carvin body blank is that you make sure all of your templates are accurate and that you've practiced a bit on some scrap --this will help minimize the risk of screwing anything up with your 'real' wood.

On the other hand, as long as you're spending that much on a blank, have a look around for a one-piece.

[Ryan D]

Yeah, I really want to get the experience of cutting out everything myself. I've got free access to a router, so that should be fine.

What would the advantage of a one-piece be over the glued two-piece (other than it's one block of wood, or is that the advantage itself)?

Thanks!

[Mickguard]

What would the advantage of a one-piece be over the glued two-piece (other than it's one block of wood, or is that the advantage itself)?

Not so much advantage as coolness factor.

There *might* be a slight tonal difference, but there's no way to say what, how, how much, etc. There's an argument that glue joints rob the wood of tone. Another argument that insists on an odd-number of pieces (so that the neck, pickups and bridge will always be housed in the same piece of wood, as long as it's wide enough to house them). Another theory has it that the longer the grain, the better the tone (i.e., a one-piece blank with the body cut diagonally to the grain).

Of course, a nice looking single-piece of wood looks really nice with a natural finish. If you're planning on a solid color, that's not an issue, obviously. Ditto if the wood itself isn't so fancy (poplar, alder). Of course, with swamp ash, you'll be wanting a natural/transparent finish anyway, since it looks so nice.

[Ryan D]

Hah, wow. So many myths/theories about woods and tone - I wish we could sick the Mythbusters on this!

I've done some looking around, and while I did find a one-piece for $78, it isn't the right dimensions (too thick) and I lack the tools to properly get it to the right thickness, so I think I'll just go with the Carvin body blank. I don't think it'll bother me.

Do you have any suggestions of parts that I should order now as well (like the pickguard and bridge, etc) that would make the building process more precise and just plain easier?

[Mickguard]

Do you have any suggestions of parts that I should order now as well (like the pickguard and bridge, etc) that would make the building process more precise and just plain easier?

Important rule of thumb: always have ALL of the parts you're going to use. Don't rely on specifications. Sure, most of the time they'll be accurate, but you should measure/route/drill everything according to what you're actually going to use.

For the body blank --if you take it to any professional carpenter, he'll thickness it for you and either won't charge you or will charge you very little. For future reference, if you go with the Carvin anyway.

An advantage of having it thicknessed nearby is that, depending on how far the wood travels, it's going to need to acclimate to your location. And it's possible for the wood to move a bit, so you'd have to thickness it anyway.

[Ryan D]

Hmm...so what do you think?

My personal inclination is to just go with the Carvin, I'd feel a little better about getting it from a trusted company. It's a little bit more, but plus it comes pre-glued which is a nice addition. Plus I'm already ordering a good load of stuff from them anyway. I have a family friend who is a contractor, and basically lives with wood, so I can probably get him to thickness it as a favor. I think I'm going to order all the stuff tonight. Any last thoughts?

Edited March 23, 2008 by Ryan D