Mind Riot Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 I may be doing some refretting work for some folks, and to be honest the prices I see online vary wildly. I'm just curious what some of the folks around here who do that sort of thing generally charge. Say, for a level and dress, a rosewood board refret, a maple board refret with refinish, whether you charge more or the same for SS frets, that sort of thing. Any thoughts are welcome, thanks everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 I may be doing some refretting work for some folks, and to be honest the prices I see online vary wildly. I'm just curious what some of the folks around here who do that sort of thing generally charge. Say, for a level and dress, a rosewood board refret, a maple board refret with refinish, whether you charge more or the same for SS frets, that sort of thing. Any thoughts are welcome, thanks everyone. How quickly you do the repairs, and what type of repairs/lutherie you do? Can you 'do it all', or only some jobs? How, when and where you market yourself and your service/products? How do people find you, and what does it cost for that new business? If you run your business from home or not, and if from home, how it is set up (yes, this plays a huge part)? How much is your rent, power, phone bills, maintenance, rates, etc? What business licensing fees, charges, and insurance do you have to pay? Location of your shop, compared to population density, musicians stomping grounds, etc? How convenient are you? What are your overheads? Rent, advertising, insurance, accounting, bank fees, etc etc etc. What other services you provide as 'extras'? Who do you work for? Do those people add a 'prestige' factor to your name and workmanship? Do you offer insurance on the guitar whilst in your care? Do you have weeks of work in advance (or months), or is this a once off job? What percentage of jobs are referrals or repeat customers? How many of the local stores refer to you as the best? How many staff, cleaners, accountants, tax specialists do you employ? How long have you been in business? etc etc etc etc When you've answered those questions truthfully, then you will be ready to set your own pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Since Perry pretty much covered it all (very good post I might add, you will do well to learn from it) I'll just give a more direct response. I charge around $65 for a level and dress and around $130+ for a refret and so far have had nothing but very happy customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 I would not touch fret work for under 175.00 on a good straight electric neck w/no binding. With binding I would start at 225.00. On vintage machines, big hollow bodies, Acoustics I usually start at 250.00. I say start cause you never know what you will run into. Here is a good price list. http://www.guitarrepairshop.com/blu.html --RestorationAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Riot Posted January 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Yikes, fellas. I'm not looking to start a business with this, I'm just a fellow working from home. I've done a lot of work for myself and some friends, and now some people want me to do some fretwork for them. No overhead, no employees, I already have all the tools, my only expenses will be stuff like sandpaper, the fret wire itself, naphtha, that sort of thing. I guess I should have been more specific, I'm not starting up as a luthier, I'm just doing some work on the side and I wanted to be fair with what I ask from people. Meaning fair to them and fair to me. Thanks for the responses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telesque Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 (edited) Yikes, fellas. I'm not looking to start a business with this, I'm just a fellow working from home. I've done a lot of work for myself and some friends, and now some people want me to do some fretwork for them. No overhead, no employees, I already have all the tools, my only expenses will be stuff like sandpaper, the fret wire itself, naphtha, that sort of thing. I guess I should have been more specific, I'm not starting up as a luthier, I'm just doing some work on the side and I wanted to be fair with what I ask from people. Meaning fair to them and fair to me. Thanks for the responses! If you can't do professional quality work, don't charge anything until you are able to. : ) Then when you're able to, charge pro rates and knock off half the price for your friends. I do a number of odd jobs for people, and I find that if you really can't bring yourself (that is, I can't bring myself) to come up with a dollar figure to start with, just figure the time by an unskilled laborer's wage. That's not to say you or I, or anyone else, is unskilled, but more-so saying "well, I guess I should be making at least this much" - It's at least what you'd be making flipping burgers. Fretjob takes two hours? 2 * $7.15 (Michigan Minimum Wage) = $14.30. If that method doesn't work for you then man up and grab some cash for yourself! Edited January 29, 2008 by Telesque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Yikes, fellas. I'm not looking to start a business with this, I'm just a fellow working from home. I've done a lot of work for myself and some friends, and now some people want me to do some fretwork for them. No overhead, no employees, I already have all the tools, my only expenses will be stuff like sandpaper, the fret wire itself, naphtha, that sort of thing. I guess I should have been more specific, I'm not starting up as a luthier, I'm just doing some work on the side and I wanted to be fair with what I ask from people. Meaning fair to them and fair to me. Thanks for the responses! I totally understand what you are considering. A couple things to think about. If a guitar in your care is damaged (call it an acto of god, nothing even related to your work) who pays for the loss? If the guitar is damaged while you are working on it, and for the sake of the hypathetical, lets say the damage is beyound your ability to repair or the cost of repairs are many times the amount for your fretwork? When a professional shop charges fees for work, they have to work in costs for insurance, overhead, labor, taxes and warrenty. So if a professional shop charges $200, but as a friendly guy operating out of your house for a few people you charge $125. Are you still going to provide coverage if something expensive and unexpected happens to the instrument? If you are going to just do this "under the table" so to speak, do you explain to these people that you will charge them $75 less than an established shop, but you offer no coverage if their instrument is damaged? Or do you figure you will fork over funds to cover anything that may happen? I would consider these things if I were in your shoes. If you just figure you will accept the risk, and things pick up. When will you draw the line? When you have $5000's worth of guitars in your care, $10,000? I wonder how many dollars worth of guitars pass through a fella like Perry's shop in a month? Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhollowman Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Wow, this is real food for thought here! I'm also very keen to work on guitars as a paying hobby. Thing is.....where to start? I have no formal lutherie training. Or electronics training. Or woodworking training. But what I do have is hand skills, massive enthusiasm, (almost!) all the tools I need, a keen eye for detail, and high standards. I take pride in my work, and the repetoire of jobs I can do confidently and well (to a customers satisfaction) is growing with my experience. Does my lack of electronics training prevent me from fitting a new pickup to the customers (and my) satisfaction? Not necessarily. And if I have ANY doubts about it, I'll either turn it down, or explain my concerns to the customer first. I'll also do research and practicing (where possible) so that I no longer have doubts. Do it properly, or not at all. I mean, I live in a very small island community with no hope of ever doing this as a fulltime job, so although Perry's comprehensive answer is entirely valid (and very though-provoking!), it's also kinda depressing for me! Eg. I will never have to employ staff. I can only work from home. I would never get local funding. I must keep my fulltime "dayjob" or my kids don't eat! However, because there's only a limited amount of work out there, I feel like I would never get anywhere by not charging anyone for a particular job just because I'm not a trained luthier. Obviously I'm completely honest with every potential customer, and I try to show them examples of what I can do, and explain what I can't/won't do. But the point is I want to make progress! And how am I to make progress without actually doing the work?? So I practice on other stuff of little or no value, or my own instruments. And all the time I feel I'm making good progress! In saying all this, I'm also trying to put myself in the customers shoes, trying to think about what their expectations and standards will be. Personally, of course I would feel better entrusting my guitar to a trained luthier, so how would "I, the customer" feel if I encountered "me, the wannabe guitar repairman" offering to do the work but for a lower price? I recently had a very interesting conversation with a guy from Feiten, where he explained about how some of their staff "graduated from the school of hard knocks" without "formal" qualifications. So I guess it is possible. At what point of experience can I class myself as "pro" enough to charge pro rates?? Or, similarly, in whose opinion when can I class myself as competent enough to charge anything other than "mates rates"? (That's a serious question, it sounds more sarcastic than it's meant to!) Some excellent comments regarding insurance etc here though!!! Just some opinions........we all should at least have opinions, right? What I'm looking for is advice here, not argument. DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 You have a real delima. You have to trust yourself to judge whether or not you are doing things properly. Have you ever run across some aspect of building that you thought you had down, only to find out you had been using the wrong material, did not understand something should be prepaired a certain way before using, or that your method as you thought you clearly understood it was missing a concept (close, but not quite right)? Without an experienced individual who does have all the pieces in place to check your methods or comment on things to consider it is very tuff to know if you really fully understand. Technique is generally developed with experience. A busy tech would knock out many set ups daily. That builds speed and technique. Take a fret level for example. Is your current technique, tools, and methods going to remove more fret material than an experienced tech? If it does (although you can get the job done well in the end), have you taken that guitar an extra step closer to an expensive re-fret? Very hard questions to answer by yourself. This is where working with an experienced tech who is a pro, could give you a chance to evaluate or be evaluated. I have no perspective on your ability, although you seem VERY honest about being forthright with anyone you would work for, as well as willing to do your best. This kinda reminds me of when I wired houses. It is one area of electrical work that many people do in their own homes (amatures). In an average week we would ruff wire and finish a few houses a week(entire houses), so you pretty much have every aspect down, and tools are dialed in to work smoothly. When I looked at how a home owner did work it was painfully slow, not as effective(wasteful), sometimes wrong or possibly unsafe, workmanship was sometimes good, sometimes sketchy. Now I wouldn't fault anyone for trying or often really giving it a great attempt, but I can say that from my perspective I knew that they were not close to professional levels(in terms of speed, efficiency or finished product). If they did do the job safely, and correctly 90% of the time the materials tools and such cost them 3 times what it should have. Now if I brought my tools over to help someone out, I could show them what I use, how to go about tasks, and cover many of the bases for doing the job effectively. In most cases they were able to pick up an the basics, and start developing a little more efficient skills and do pretty well. There were still gaps in their knowledge, but they had the bulk of what they were doing in good order. I can't speak from a professional point of veiw on being a tech (because I am not), but I suspect most professional to amature situations are pretty similar. Although of course some things require much more training and experience to develop basic competancy (Brain surgery is probably not something one could pick up on quickly). Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhollowman Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Rich, You're a fella whose opinions and input I have very much come to respect and welcome.(along with some others!) I have read through your last reply here 3 times, and let it sit in my brain to digest for a couple of days. You make some very sound points, and you are absolutely right! Without the requisite luthier training it would be unacceptable for me to ever charge pro rates - although, to be fair to myself here, that was never my intention! I think it's much more reasonable to do repairs on an honest level, which is what I'm getting into a little bit already, and charge a "reasonable" price - "reasonable" as defined by my judgement of the work involved. I have somewhat of an advantage in that there are no pro luthiers working anywhere near where I live, meaning that if someone wants work done and I'm capable of doing it then I stand a fair chance of getting the job!! However, that's also a disadvantage because I would really like to understudy and learn from a real pro. I think I'll keep going on that basis for now. Good stuff! DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Like John Suhr told me in 1989 : " It doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you do quality work and have the proper end product ". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Move forward with the attitude and integrity you have, and I imagine you will have happy customers. Stay honest with yourself and people who ask you to do work. When the oportunity to spend some time with more experienced technitions becomes possible, make the most of it. Don't put yourself at more risk than you can deal with. Be careful in being fair with others, that you are also fair with yourself. I hope it works out well for you and the people you work with Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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