al heeley Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Reading thru a lot of posts here about epoxy used as a grain filler. The only epoxy I'm familiar with is the 2 tubes of Araldite epoxy glue you mix together so you can stick pianos and relatives to ceilings, etc.. What sort of epoxy is commonly used for grain-filling, and where can I find it in the UK? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 'Z-poxy finishing resin' is typically what is favored for grain filling. I Know Axminster sells other type of Z-poxy online, so i'm sure it's available somewhere in the UK. Some hobby shops carry it. I don't know if LMI ships internationally, but that's where I bought mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 'Z-poxy finishing resin' is typically what is favored for grain filling. I Know Axminster sells other type of Z-poxy online, so i'm sure it's available somewhere in the UK. Some hobby shops carry it. I don't know if LMI ships internationally, but that's where I bought mine. I do not believe that Axminster sell it. I ordered mine here Denis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al heeley Posted February 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Yes they do actually, it's on their website: http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Zap-Z-P...Resin-23719.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 That Axminster link is not the finishing resin though, you don't want to get the regular epoxy. That ALS Hobbies link looks good. I was just mentioning Axminster because I knew they sold Zap products, so I figured the finishing resin had to be available somewhere in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al heeley Posted February 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 What is special/different about the finishing epoxy then? Is it just a more user-friendly viscosity for spreading, for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 i have used the normal z-poxy resin for grainfilling before. generally use west systems now though. Its worth leaving the west systems a day or two to harden off completely before sanding back. The Z-poxy will dry faster but is not as clear as the west systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 What is special/different about the finishing epoxy then? Is it just a more user-friendly viscosity for spreading, for example? Yes, I believe that is the case. I've also heard that it is not designed to bond two surfaces together, but I don't know if there is any truth to that. I'm no chemical engineer. It worked well for me. Wez mentioned the West Systems stuff. I've heard good things about that as well, except that it is a bit more difficult to mix correctly than the Z-poxy. It's more stoichiometrically sensitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al heeley Posted February 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 OK, thx for the info guys. I'm going to go ahead with the Rustins plasic coating 2-pack i already have on the shelf here to act as sealer,. dye it up for the colour then use it as a clear coat. I'll save the epoxy treatment for another project where I have bigger pored wood to finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Wez mentioned the West Systems stuff. I've heard good things about that as well, except that it is a bit more difficult to mix correctly than the Z-poxy. It's more stoichiometrically sensitive. yeah , the pumps seem expensive but after having one epoxy fill that didnt cure fully they make a lot of sense for mixing west systems accurately just for some reassurance i have had good results with the RPC onto mahogany without a grainfill. If you apply the first few clear coats with a brush it will fill quite a lot for you anyway - especially if you get the guitar horizontal and do one side at a time to allow it to self level. it s a forgiving finish to work with!! it does continue to sink into the wood so you will see the grain eventually but its quite a nice look and feel anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) I'll have to second the pumps for west systems and second the epoxy itself, good stuff, crystal clear as far as I've seen. I believe west systems also has a finishing resin version, they have a couple types, 205, 206, and then the 207 which I think is the finishing resin, I will have to recheck that though, can't quite remember. Honestly I thought the pumps system was expensive at first, but after using it I would gladly pay even more for it, saves you so much time and trouble. I tried several two part epoxies and found west systems to my favorite. It works perfectly fine for grainfilling, you don't really need the finishing resin for grainfilling, regular epoxy works fine. The 206 from west systems is actually thinner than their 205 and normal epoxy by a decent amount, works great for this application, plus epoxy can be thinned even more with a few products like acetone. Best of luck with the finish and snap some photos as you go for us. There is a good thread somewhere at OLF from a number of months or more ago, about epoxy grainfilling and which epoxies are preferred and a couple people post some beautiful shots of the west system in action. West Systems and Zpoxy I believe were among the favorites. Let you know if I find it. J Edit: OLF epoxy grainfilling discussion More Dicussion similar subject These two links should really add some info to your search. The first link shows a couple pics on the second and third page that are nice a representation of the product. Really some quality info there to read through including some well informed opinions. Hope this helps. J Edited February 8, 2008 by jmrentis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 OK, thx for the info guys. I'm going to go ahead with the Rustins plasic coating 2-pack i already have on the shelf here to act as sealer,. dye it up for the colour then use it as a clear coat. I'll save the epoxy treatment for another project where I have bigger pored wood to finish. Just to make this one quick without going off-topic...what are you using to dye the Plastic Coating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 There is a definite difference between epoxy designed for bonding things together, and a grain-filling epoxy. A grain-filling epoxy will harden up, but then sand back relatively easily. A bonding epoxy will harden almost like stone, and will be an absolute B*TCH to level. Ask me how I know.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 i dont think i have seen any grainfilling epoxy over this side of the pond so if someone knows where to get it it would be helpfull... The west systems i use does take quite a bit of sanding back, but still quite usuable as for colouring rustins, i have succesfully used chesnut spirit stain form axminster and solar lux stain from craft supplies without any problems... they mix just fine and hold the colour despite what it says in the rustins literature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 i dont think i have seen any grainfilling epoxy over this side of the pond so if someone knows where to get it it would be helpfull... The west systems i use does take quite a bit of sanding back, but still quite usuable as for colouring rustins, i have succesfully used chesnut spirit stain form axminster and solar lux stain from craft supplies without any problems... they mix just fine and hold the colour despite what it says in the rustins literature I think Erik is just saying to use a finishing epoxy(used to finish things like boats and what not), as opposed to adhesive. West Systems makes finishing epoxy, I use System Three (carried by several places close by). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 ah, thats alright then - plenty of west systems available here. I must admit to prefering to grainfill with superglue at the moment, i tend to change my mind quite often though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acousticraft Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 You can mix a powder into clear epoxy to thicken it to use as a glue. The epoxy suppliers will have it. Thickened slightly it can be forced into the grain with a putty knife or old credit card for good grain filling. In NZ and Aus you can get a craft epoxy from Spotlight called "Liquid Gloss" that is crystal clear, self levelling and ideal for inlays and grain filling. It also sands really easily once cured for 4-5 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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