Clear Coats ?

[BA3844]

If I use an Acrylic lacquer, like Dupli-color or Krylon, can I still get a really nice glossy shine if I then clear coat it with the clear lacquer of the the same brand, then buff it out the same way as you would any other clear coat? I am assuming the clears of the Duplicolor and Krylon brands are also Acrylic?

Basically I don't want to gamble with clear coating over Acrylic with a Nitro clear because of all the warnings I have read. I just want an easy, fairly quick end to this refinish project but still have a really nice glossy EVH striped copy (white with black stripes), thanks.

[killemall8]

of course, why wouldnt you be able to? i have done it numerous times.

[DGW]

Don't waste your time with spraycans, especially Krylon.

It's WAAAAY too soft to use on guitars and totally ruins your tone.

[BA3844]

of course, why wouldnt you be able to? i have done it numerous times.

I thought Nitro was the only way to acheive a professional look. I don't want to wait weeks or months for the job to cure before clear coating, and nitro clear over acrylic paint could be a problem.

I just want the guitar to look great the first time and not look to cheap. I know how to paint, never clear coated before, just not familar with the different brands and how well they make a guitar turn out.....thanks for the reply

[aidlook]

Don't waste your time with spraycans, especially Krylon.

It's WAAAAY too soft to use on guitars and totally ruins your tone.

Care to post some kind of proof of how it 'ruins' the tone.

of course, why wouldnt you be able to? i have done it numerous times.

I thought Nitro was the only way to acheive a professional look. I don't want to wait weeks or months for the job to cure before clear coating, and nitro clear over acrylic paint could be a problem.

I just want the guitar to look great the first time and not look to cheap. I know how to paint, never clear coated before, just not familar with the different brands and how well they make a guitar turn out.....thanks for the reply

Where did you get the idea that clearcoating with nitro would be a problem? care to post any source of that info? Seems like you could use the search function and read up a bit on these topics to get your info straight.

[CrazyManAndy]

Duplicolor makes pretty good stuff, and I know plenty of folks who have used it. Their color coats anyway. I've heard that Duplicolor's clear takes a long time to harden up, more than nitro even, and probably will never get quite as hard. Similar stories with some other acrylic clears. As far as compatibility issues between acrylic and nitro, I believe you just have to be careful when you start applying one over the other. That is to say, build it up slowly, misting it on at first. And I hear it's best to let the acrylic dry a few days before applying the nitro.

I think there are two universal rules for finishing:

1. Test on scrap.

2. Don't rush it!

I'm sure you want to get this over with, but if you take your time and do it right, it'll come out much better. Personally, I'd use nitro rather than acrylic clear.

CMA

Edited February 9, 2008 by CrazyManAndy

[DGW]

Don't waste your time with spraycans, especially Krylon.

It's WAAAAY too soft to use on guitars and totally ruins your tone.

Care to post some kind of proof of how it 'ruins' the tone.

Care to post some kind of proof that it doesn't?

Spraypaint is for lawn furniture, not guitars.

[uv777]

Don't waste your time with spraycans, especially Krylon.

It's WAAAAY too soft to use on guitars and totally ruins your tone.

Care to post some kind of proof of how it 'ruins' the tone.

Care to post some kind of proof that it doesn't?

Spraypaint is for lawn furniture, not guitars.

now that doesn't really qualify your statement...

[DGW]

Don't waste your time with spraycans, especially Krylon.

It's WAAAAY too soft to use on guitars and totally ruins your tone.

Care to post some kind of proof of how it 'ruins' the tone.

Care to post some kind of proof that it doesn't?

Spraypaint is for lawn furniture, not guitars.

now that doesn't really qualify your statement...

No problem ...

BEFORE

AFTER

As for it effecting your tone, no ... I don't have proof of that.

In order to do that, I would have had to record clips before and after, which I had no reason for doing at the time.

Feel free to use Krylon and judge for yourself.

[aidlook]

Well the issue wasn't really about how the finish turned out (you have obviously done something wrong here), but the fact that you claimed that paint sprayed from rattlecans somehow magically 'ruins' your tone. Giving other people advice based on, well nothing, doesn't really help people out at all and confuses people.

[CrazyManAndy]

I'm curious to know what products you used and in what order. And I hear a lot of bad things about Krylon. Are their acrylic paints enamel, or lacquer, or do they have both?

CMA

Edited February 9, 2008 by CrazyManAndy

[DGW]

Well the issue wasn't really about how the finish turned out (you have obviously done something wrong here), but the fact that you claimed that paint sprayed from rattlecans somehow magically 'ruins' your tone. Giving other people advice based on, well nothing, doesn't really help people out at all and confuses people.

I've done something wrong here? ... Really? ... Interesting.

And may I ask what your experience with Krylon is?

My advice here is to help others avoid wasting their time, money, and projects doing stupid things like painting guitars with spraypaint.

Had I only posted the first pic and stated that Krylon worked great, what would your response be?

That I had "obviously done something wrong"?????

My advice here is based on years experience with rattlecans, not "nothing".

The proof is in my photos.

And I never said that Krylon "magically" ruins your tone ... I said it "totally ruins your tone".

So if you must quote me, please quote me accurately.

Again ... YOU use spraypaint on YOUR guitar and if YOU'RE happy with the results, and love the tone of a smothered turd, than I guess that's all that matters.

Edited February 9, 2008 by DGW

[DGW]

I'm curious to know what products you used and in what order. And I hear a lot of bad things about Krylon. Are their acrylic paints enamel, or lacquer, or do they have both?

CMA

Thanks for listening CMA ....

You're correct ... MANY people have had problems with this stuff.

Even the author of the book "How to Paint Your Own Guitar" admits that Krylon is not the way to go.

He now states that "Duplicolor" works, but I have a sneaky suspision that Duplicolor does the same thing when trying to achieve a factory finish. Remember ... he's in it to sell books.

The only finish you should attempt to try with this stuff is the EVH relic finishes.

After all ... that's suppose to look like crap.

Edited February 9, 2008 by DGW

[BA3844]

First of all thanks for all the responses about clear coating.

I just am not sure how long to wait between paint and clear. Is the " see if you can scratch it with your fingernail a good and accurate judgement" ?

I have only gone by what i read in the forums about nitro over acrylic...of it not being totally compatable...heck, i don't know, never used the stuff before.

As far as Krylon...sure, lawn furniture first..guitars dead last probally. i just want to easily buy more if i run out. But duplicolor is also acrylic so what is really the difference " krylon, duplicolor, rustoleum lacquer...unless it says nitro somewhere on the can i wouldn't be so sure.

VHT..used in the hotrod car world is true nitro-cellulose...probally the same as re-ranch.

This is for my 13 year old who totally digs EVH, so no matter what...i don't want it to look like crap. its got to look cool and have a super glossy shine to it...again thanks for the replies...its how i am learning all this stuff.

[DGW]

First of all thanks for all the responses about clear coating.

I just am not sure how long to wait between paint and clear. Is the " see if you can scratch it with your fingernail a good and accurate judgement" ?

I have only gone by what i read in the forums about nitro over acrylic...of it not being totally compatable...heck, i don't know, never used the stuff before.

As far as Krylon...sure, lawn furniture first..guitars dead last probally. i just want to easily buy more if i run out. But duplicolor is also acrylic so what is really the difference " krylon, duplicolor, rustoleum lacquer...unless it says nitro somewhere on the can i wouldn't be so sure.

VHT..used in the hotrod car world is true nitro-cellulose...probally the same as re-ranch.

This is for my 13 year old who totally digs EVH, so no matter what...i don't want it to look like crap. its got to look cool and have a super glossy shine to it...again thanks for the replies...its how i am learning all this stuff.

Krylon is an acrylic lacquer and will take up to a year to fully cure.

Even then, it's not going to offer a hard finish ...

The finish will show impressions of anything that comes into contact with including the fur from your guitar case, carpet, even your clothing. You will also notice that any hardware that comes into contact with the body (such as pickgaurds) will begin to sink into the finsh. I kid you not.

Anything in a can has a prolonged shelf life.

In order to accomplish this, there has to be some sort of additive in those cans to prevent the paint from hardening.

IMO, it's this same additive that causes the finish on your guitar to remain soft.

As for tone ...

Despite my lack of "proof", it should make perfect sense to all of you here that a soft finish like this would have a greater effect on your tone then say a harder finish that may help to provide for good resonance.

Most people get sucked into using spraycans because it's very inexpensive and very easy to find at any department store.

Just remember ... "If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is" and "You get what you pay for".

[killemall8]

Krylon is an acrylic lacquer and will take up to a year to fully cure.

Even then, it's not going to offer a hard finish ...

well, thats where your wrong. in a warm low humidity enviornment, it will cure faster than nitro. i live in a very hot place, and i have painted a ton of guitars with krylon, and they all cured within 2 days and you couldnt leave an impression in it. and that was cleared with dupli color at the same time it was painted.

[BA3844]

well, thats where your wrong. in a warm low humidity enviornment, it will cure faster than nitro. i live in a very hot place, and i have painted a ton of guitars with krylon, and they all cured within 2 days and you couldnt leave an impression in it. and that was cleared with dupli color at the same time it was painted.

[aidlook]

I've done something wrong here? ... Really? ... Interesting.

And may I ask what your experience with Krylon is?

Yes, looking at those pictures you have obviously gotten something wrong, shame because it was a really nice finish. But no product, used the exact right way would be that sensitive to touch.

My advice here is to help others avoid wasting their time, money, and projects doing stupid things like painting guitars with spraypaint.

Had I only posted the first pic and stated that Krylon worked great, what would your response be?

That I had "obviously done something wrong"?????

My advice here is based on years experience with rattlecans, not "nothing".

The proof is in my photos.

AGAIN, in the first place I didn't question the durability of your paint but the fact that you said it totally ruins tone.

And I never said that Krylon "magically" ruins your tone ... I said it "totally ruins your tone".

So if you must quote me, please quote me accurately.

I only remember quoting the word 'ruins' and I'm pretty shure you used that.

Again ... YOU use spraypaint on YOUR guitar and if YOU'RE happy with the results, and love the tone of a smothered turd, than I guess that's all that matters.

I don't use rattlecans, I shoot nitro, but that doesn't really matter. My point is, and has always been, that you post unsubstantiated hypothesises (is that the plural form ) and claim them to be true.

IF you're gonna post your unvalidated theories MAKE SHURE the newbies that come to this forum ARE AWARE of the fact that they are nothing but unvalidated theories, otherwise confusion arises.

So? your theory is that, because it's softer, it gives any given guitar finished with it 'the tone of a smothered turd'. So you mean a finish that is maybe half a mm thick at best could have such a devistating impact on the tone (now this is also a pretty loose term) of a solid body about 100 times thicker. Seems to me like something even bigger touching it ,say like your belly or your arm, would have such a big impact that the instrument would be worthless, also considering how much softer the skin is. So according to your logic (hard=good) we should be playing our guitars in suits of armor?

Edited February 10, 2008 by aidlook

[DGW]

I've done something wrong here? ... Really? ... Interesting.

And may I ask what your experience with Krylon is?

Yes, looking at those pictures you have obviously gotten something wrong, shame because it was a really nice finish. But no product, used the exact right way would be that sensitive to touch.

My advice here is to help others avoid wasting their time, money, and projects doing stupid things like painting guitars with spraypaint.

Had I only posted the first pic and stated that Krylon worked great, what would your response be?

That I had "obviously done something wrong"?????

My advice here is based on years experience with rattlecans, not "nothing".

The proof is in my photos.

AGAIN, in the first place I didn't question the durability of your paint but the fact that you said it totally ruins tone.

And I never said that Krylon "magically" ruins your tone ... I said it "totally ruins your tone".

So if you must quote me, please quote me accurately.

I only remember quoting the word 'ruins' and I'm pretty shure you used that.

Again ... YOU use spraypaint on YOUR guitar and if YOU'RE happy with the results, and love the tone of a smothered turd, than I guess that's all that matters.

I don't use rattlecans, I shoot nitro, but that doesn't really matter. My point is, and has always been, that you post unsubstantiated hypothesises (is that the plural form ) and claim them to be true.

IF you're gonna post your unvalidated theories MAKE SHURE the newbies that come to this forum ARE AWARE of the fact that they are nothing but unvalidated theories, otherwise confusion arises.

So? your theory is that, because it's softer, it gives any given guitar finished with it 'the tone of a smothered turd'. So you mean a finish that is maybe half a mm thick at best could have such a devistating impact on the tone (now this is also a pretty loose term) of a solid body about 100 times thicker. Seems to me like something even bigger touching it ,say like your belly or your arm, would have such a big impact that the instrument would be worthless, also considering how much softer the skin is. So according to your logic (hard=good) we should be playing our guitars in suits of armor?

The simple fact that you have absolutely no experience with rattlecans speaks volumes aidlook.

And as expected, you totally missed my whole point about the soft finish.

Who said anything about "thickness"?

IMO, those who offer advice without prior experience are those who mislead people.

Paint a guitar with Krylon, wait a year, then feel free to continue this debate.

[aidlook]

First of all I never said I haven't used rattlecans, I just don't anymore because I have other options available wich are better suited for my needs at the moment.

I missed your point about the soft finish?really? seems to me that your point was that it should make perfect sense that soft finish=tone of a smuthered turd. I just don't believe that statement without you actually showing something more than unsubstantiated theories to back this up.

Who said anything about thickness? I did. You seem to have missed the point that a finish with 1/100th the thickness of a resonating body could at best have a marginal effect on the resonance, and to say that this marginal effect could completely 'ruin' the tone of an instrument is pretty silly if you have nothing to back it up.

[BA3844]

Wow....I would think that if you dudes are into painting guitars that much why wouldn't you all of been using more professional methods.

I am only going to be painting 1 guitar and am no way going to be investing more money than the guitar is worth.

I have chosen to use dupli-color spraycans, acrylic laquer, and hope to buff it all out really nice. There sure is a popular opinion that this has worked for many in the past. thanks all for your replies...one thing is for sure..that EVH was f@#ked

up because something was done wrong. Maybe the Krylon was bad or something.

[CrazyManAndy]

Well, BA3822, professional equipment would be nice, but many of use don't have the wallet or produce enough pieces to warrant it. And I would not discount rattlecans as a viable option. It's more about what's in them, rather than the fact that they are spray cans. I've seen plenty of very professional, absolutely stunning, finishing jobs done with rattlecans. As long as you use quality materials, and you know what you're doing, you can do just fine with them.

CMA

[MiKro]

Sounds like a p!$$!ng match to me. let it be and move on!!!!!!!!

MK

[tubab0y]

Yeah, if you take your time and let it cure, the dupli-color is perfectly fine stuff.

[rooster]

The cracking that occured had nothing to do with Krylon as a brand. It has everything to do with THICKNESS of the paint on it. Lacquer "checks" as it ages and creates "lizard skin". All the old show cars that had 50 coats of lacquer on them look like this now due to material thickness. That's why polyurethane came into the forefront of painting and refinishing. The shine and sprayability of Lacquer with the hardness of enamel with out the build up.

Rattlecans are fine for most, but will NEVER offer the durability of a properly sprayed Poly finish.

Oh, and most of the Krylon I've ever used was enamel.