T Or F: Neck-thru's Are Better For Heavy Metal A/o Active Pickups

[Dave I]

I remember reading the opinion that neck-thru's were better for high-gain styles of music because they lack the overtones of set-necks and bolt-ons. The rationale was that the neutral, thinner sound of neck-thru's allowed the guitar to maintain clarity under high-gain.

So I am wondering, do any of you find neck-thru's are overall better for high-gain music, and if so, why?

Related question, with either active pickups (EMG 81's and the like), or just really high gain, does the neck-setting and its tone on the guitar matter as much, or is that more of a low-to-moderate gain consideration? Similarly, how much of a difference will wood-choice matter with active pickups? If I normally prefer Mahogany or Alder guitars with set necks while using passives, will I necessarily like the same setup with actives, or will I be more inclined to like the different style of the guitar with, for example, EMG 81's if they are setup with a different wood a/o neck combo?

-Cheers

[GregP]

Neither T nor F.

I predict in this thread.... tone voodoo conversations!

Make a guitar with wood you prefer to use, with a style of neck attachment that works for you. Everything else is just an exercise in academic minutiae.

Disclaimer: of course, common-sense and best practices still apply. I'm not implying that if you like rock maple, you should make an entire guitar out of it (though, it's been done!)... I'm just saying that within the scope of reasonable choices, you shouldn't get hung up in concocting a "perfect recipe". You can make a metal guitar with actives and a neck-through, and you can make it out of mahogany or alder with any number of neck-wood choices. I wouldn't spend much time worrying about it beyond that.

[RGman]

There is probably very minimal differences, but i have never tested this myself.

I like neck through for looks and when done the right way, the upper fret access is amazing.

[WezV]

The rationale was that the neutral, thinner sound of neck-thru's allowed the guitar to maintain clarity under high-gain.

dont assume through necks sound thinner or neutral - that again comes down to things like woods used and number of laminations and overall design.

[westhemann]

Greg is right....it is all about the guy playing...I prefer neck thru purely "just because"...but I also like the tone of a good set neck...I do not like bolt on...but Alex sckolnick seemed to do well with his bolt ons....as does Satriani...

[Prostheta]

Agreed, plus metal is such a varied field that you can't say one instrument is better than another. I've always enjoyed playing wide open chords on neck-throughs as they seem to be a bit richer and complex. This is referring to the mother of all neck-throughs (to me) the Roland G-808. I would do terrible deplorable inhuman things to have the chance to own one of those again :-\

You'll get more from choosing your scale length, string gauge and fret size in my opinion, plus your tone will come from your playing. Just bear in mind that this is always going to be just opinion.

Are you building this instrument, or in the market for buying instead?

[Dave I]

I predict in this thread.... tone voodoo conversations!

Let's hope not. I am just asking about tendencies and if there is some mythbusting in the process that kills tone voodoo, or supports it for that matter, all the better.

-Cheers

[Dave I]

Agreed, plus metal is such a varied field that you can't say one instrument is better than another. I've always enjoyed playing wide open chords on neck-throughs as they seem to be a bit richer and complex. This is referring to the mother of all neck-throughs (to me) the Roland G-808. I would do terrible deplorable inhuman things to have the chance to own one of those again :-\

You'll get more from choosing your scale length, string gauge and fret size in my opinion, plus your tone will come from your playing. Just bear in mind that this is always going to be just opinion.

Are you building this instrument, or in the market for buying instead?

I think . . . Both! I am thinking of buying an ESP Ltd V-500 (set-thru neck, kind of like a REALLY long tenon set neck), however I am also planning on building a Jackson King V with a Floyd Rose and a set-neck with a blended heel. However, there seems to be some preference for neck-thrus in the metal community. I am just trying to decide if, with a smooth neck heel, I might take away the main reason people prefer neck-thru's (i.e. better upper fret access). However, I have never had a neck-thru, so I thought I would ask if it is better (or not) for high-gain music, a/o EMG's if I go that route.

-Cheers

[fryovanni]

I think you are getting great feedback in these responces.

Personally, I think there should be a difference(all else equal) although slight, but whatever difference there may be could be offset by using different materials(nobody is going to tell you a Rock Maple neck and a Basswood neck will give you the same performance or feel, as there is a very large difference in the structural properties of these woods).

As far as what makes a "good" metal guitar. I think Wes put it best, it is the person playing the guitar. Strat's to Soloists have done the job in the right hands. Amp, cabs, anything in your signal chain, pickups, and strings (to me those are good places to look when dialing in your sound). The guitar needs to be set up well and feel good to your hands. Leave the small bits of debate for people who can't play and are trying to compensate (ooops did I say that out loud ).

Peace,Rich

[Dave I]

As far as what makes a "good" metal guitar. I think Wes put it best, it is the person playing the guitar. Strat's to Soloists have done the job in the right hands. Amp, cabs, anything in your signal chain, pickups, and strings (to me those are good places to look when dialing in your sound). The guitar needs to be set up well and feel good to your hands. Leave the small bits of debate for people who can't play and are trying to compensate (ooops did I say that out loud ).

Cool. I guess I should just flip a coin and spend more time practicing and less time fretting over details*.

-Cheers

*Note: Unintentional pun. Sorry. I left it in there anyway.

[ihocky2]

The other question is, what type of metal do you play. Guitars tuned down to C, B or even lower playing a lot of palm muting with the gain at 10, you are nto going to hear much of a difference between neck through and the other styles. If it more hair metal with 10 minute solos, you are going to pick more tonal differences.

[Dave I]

The other question is, what type of metal do you play.

Not that I sound just like these bands, but the style(s) or metal I play include Alice in Chains, Tool, early Burton-era Metallica, Slipknot (especially Subliminal Verses, the hauntingly unsettling kind of clean tone to the typical heavier stuff to the experimental stuff), Pantera, and Opeth (the whole range). I do not typically downtune, and usually go for a moderate to moderate-heavy amount of gain, kind of like In Flames to some extent. So I like to play a range, get pretty heavy and edgy but usually not ridiculous or just to show how heavy I am.

Guitars tuned down to C, B or even lower playing a lot of palm muting with the gain at 10, you are nto going to hear much of a difference between neck through and the other styles. If it more hair metal with 10 minute solos, you are going to pick more tonal differences.

Good point. I really do not fit into either extreme. I could see down tuning to some extent, but I do not think I would go ultra low with every knob on my OD or distortion pedal turned to 10. On the other hand, I do rhythm and riffing, not the half-hour guitar solo sort of stuff where you can go have a nice meal and come back with me still playing. So I do not need over-the-top distorted sludgy drop G tuning metal, nor the peel session 5-10 minute guitar solo arrangement. I have no idea if that makes any change in what you would recommend or if it effects my decision, but there it is.

As an aside, I am much less apprehensive about going the neck-thru route. Not that I will, but you have alleviated some of my concern as a group, so thanks!

-Cheers

[killemall8]

Agreed, plus metal is such a varied field that you can't say one instrument is better than another. I've always enjoyed playing wide open chords on neck-throughs as they seem to be a bit richer and complex. This is referring to the mother of all neck-throughs (to me) the Roland G-808. I would do terrible deplorable inhuman things to have the chance to own one of those again :-\

You'll get more from choosing your scale length, string gauge and fret size in my opinion, plus your tone will come from your playing. Just bear in mind that this is always going to be just opinion.

Are you building this instrument, or in the market for buying instead?

I think . . . Both! I am thinking of buying an ESP Ltd V-500 (set-thru neck, kind of like a REALLY long tenon set neck), however I am also planning on building a Jackson King V with a Floyd Rose and a set-neck with a blended heel. However, there seems to be some preference for neck-thrus in the metal community. I am just trying to decide if, with a smooth neck heel, I might take away the main reason people prefer neck-thru's (i.e. better upper fret access). However, I have never had a neck-thru, so I thought I would ask if it is better (or not) for high-gain music, a/o EMG's if I go that route.

-Cheers

jackson doesnt make set necks. only set thru neck thru and bolt ons

[Dave I]

jackson doesnt make set necks. only set thru neck thru and bolt ons

I know. All the more reason to build one as such, no?

-Cheers

[eddiewarlock]

You mean Jackson makes neck thru

I prefer neck thrus just because, and they look cooler BUT look at metal bands and you'll see some bands play neck thru, some other set neck and other bolt on. In Flames plays with set necks guitars, Megadeth played neck thru, it's all a matter of prefernce.

I don't think neck thrus have a thinner sounds or a neutral sound, but then again, mine are made with a mahogany neck and mahogany wings or purpleheart necks and mahogany wings...always ebony fretboards....

[RGman]

I guess in the end it all comes down to preference. What do you enjoy playing? Set Neck, Through Neck or Bolt On.

I like neck through as they are comfortable in the upper ranges.

Set neck is good too and is easier to fret than neck through (i wouldn't fret a board unless it was on the neck, some people do though)

Bolt on is easier than set and through necks, also easily replaced if you screw up.

[djhollowman]

Not that I sound just like these bands, but the style(s) or metal I play include Alice in Chains, Tool, early Burton-era Metallica, Slipknot (especially Subliminal Verses, the hauntingly unsettling kind of clean tone to the typical heavier stuff to the experimental stuff), Pantera, and Opeth (the whole range). I do not typically downtune, and usually go for a moderate to moderate-heavy amount of gain, kind of like In Flames to some extent. So I like to play a range, get pretty heavy and edgy but usually not ridiculous or just to show how heavy I am.

And herein lies the problem. Take Metallica: ESP (probably bolt-on neck) or Gibson (most likely set neck) guitars with EMG active pickups, and I think they were still using Marshall amps back then. Take Slipknot: BC Rich, Fender or Ibanez guitars (all bolt-on) with EMG active pickups, not sure about their amps, guessing Mesa Dual Rectifier. Take Pantera: Washburn then Dean guitars (both bolt-on) with Seymour Duncan passive pickups, Krank and Randall amps. Take Opeth: PRS guitars (set neck?) passive pickups, Laney amps. Not to mention string choices!!! There's just little common ground to compare here.

I believe it's good playing practice, and good ear training to regularly play as many variations as possible.

All my guitars are bolt-ons, but I would love to own some set-necks and some thru-necks. Heck, I might even try making some!

Plenty of top guitarists used bolt-ons: Vai, Satch, Gilbert, Clapton, SRV, Hendrix, Johnson, etc etc.

Plenty of top guitarists used set-necks: Page, Slash, Wylde, Rhoads, etc etc.

See what I did there?

I agree with fryovanni:

I bet I can take any guitar with reasonably high-output pickups, plug it into a decent amp, and wring out a tone damn close to any metal band you can name! It really is all in the fingers. You gotta go with what you like yourself, it's the only way to play with CONFIDENCE.....and it's the confidence that makes YOU play like YOU!

DJ

PS - actually Slipknot's tone isn't as gain-heavy as you might initially think. Sounds like a lot of studio layering to make a fuller sound.

And Dimebag, sorry bud, you were an AWESOME guitarist, but your tone was way too treble-y for me!

[killemall8]

You mean Jackson makes neck thru

I prefer neck thrus just because, and they look cooler BUT look at metal bands and you'll see some bands play neck thru, some other set neck and other bolt on. In Flames plays with set necks guitars, Megadeth played neck thru, it's all a matter of prefernce.

I don't think neck thrus have a thinner sounds or a neutral sound, but then again, mine are made with a mahogany neck and mahogany wings or purpleheart necks and mahogany wings...always ebony fretboards....

no, they make set thrus too. see

http://cgi.ebay.com/Jackson-SLH2-Soloist-T...Q2em118Q2el1247

some you can see from the other end by the strap button under the maple top. its a set thru.

and look at this one. look at the pics of the back. it looks like a set neck. but then look at the third when its in the case, you can see a little tiny bit of a square where the neck is under the top lam.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Jackson-SL-1-Soloist-g...1QQcmdZViewItem

Edited April 14, 2008 by killemall8

[killemall8]

ha, got good pics of set neck jacksons. all of the custom shop and super high end usa jacksons are set necks. see here

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/k..._sl1_nat4-1.jpg

[Bryan316]

My experiences have found that sustain is affected by the neck construction method moreso than tone.

But in basses, I've found neck-thrus to retain more of the neck's wood's tone, than the body wood's tone. So when doing a neck-thru bass, the woods chosen for the body wings play far more into cosmetics, and changes nothing for actual tone, since all the vibrations through the wood are centered in the neck.

But set necks and bolt-ons, that's all completely up in the air. There's no absolutes with that.

[WezV]

. So when doing a neck-thru bass, the woods chosen for the body wings play far more into cosmetics, and changes nothing for actual tone, since all the vibrations through the wood are centered in the neck.

for the most part i agree with that statement - the neck section of a neck through guitar certainly provides the main tonal ingredients

but i wouldnt rule out the influence of the wings completely - it is minimised but definately still there... lots of factors which affect this, as always

[Prostheta]

I would add something outside of the build factor - metal sounds invariably involve a LOT of compression which can muscle out the natural sounds of the instrument more than say, a overdrive blues tone or a clean tone. Basses are more than as not played relatively clean so the character of the instrument shines. I say invariably, because I prefer to back off the distortion to regain tone and dynamic!

Also, it depends on what style is being played. Big long drawn out distorted chords? Staccato picked phrased? Solos? All have their different flavours, and to a degree, styles of instruments which will suit them better. I like my EXPs for big sounds, big chords etc. I prefer my Ibanez S for solo and slower chunky characterful rhythm. I prefer my EXPs for low grindy chunk. The Ibanez is a bolt-on. One of my EXPs is also bolt-on, and the other is a set neck. I used to have a Jackson neck-through Rhoads V with a Floyd and I felt it was too biting....go figure! According to the bubblegum cards, it should have a big sound eh? Not so....there are always exceptions to the obvious....

Searching for the "ultimate metal sounding guitars" is like searching for the blackest black - there's more character and room for tone-searching to be found this side of the black-void-staring fence :-D

[Bryan316]

When my brother runs any of his guitars through his rig, they all sound the same. Whether his junky RG's or his custom shop Jackson Randy V or his ESP F-207 or his Epiphone Les Paul. When his amp is cranked, the tube saturation compresses the crap outta his guitars' innate tonal characteristics, and makes them all sound equal under the Horns. \m/ For him, it's more the features the guitar has, than the guitar's actual tonality. Six string or seven string, hard tail or Floyd trem, DiMarzio or EMG... his guitars all sound exactly the same by the time he's got his preamp cranked to 11, but the physical features might determine one guitar over another. Oh, and don't forget tunings! Having a guitar already drop-tuned or detuned 1/2 step makes it easy to practice along to a CD that was recorded in other than standard tuning.

[RestorationAD]

Oh man I want in.... I love set necks but my Model 5 Charvel and I have never gotten along, I can pick up any of my late 80's early 90's RG and shred, my Gibson V makes me feel versatile... and my Parker Fly's are best on stage. I think that covers all three neck types and one carbon fiber to boot.

Eddy used his Flying V more than you think.

James Hetfield's guitars are ghost built and are not stock ESP's.

The greatest thing that ever happened to Metallica was when Kirk gave James a Mark IIC Mesa Head.

This is a great discussion. It really is too bad that the guitar doesn't make you sound a certain way. The one thing I can say is metal is about attitude and certain guitars put me in certain moods that make for killer jams. I used to tell my bass player that there is an electricity that starts at the amp and flows up through the cord into your guitar and eventually to the back of your skull that makes the whole thing become alive. Find that combo and burn.

My Mark IV Mesa and my favorite guitar (or which ever has new strings on it) is all I really need.

[ToneMonkey]

I think red guitars sound the best for Heavy Metal. Oddly enough green ones sound best for the blues.