First Time Refinishing....anything

[Dissentience]

Hello everyone,

Im sure this is the 1000th topic on this, but I figured I'd try and weasel another one in. BTW, this is my first post/thread, so go easy on me! I just want to start by saying this forum is awesome! So much information, I've been lurking around here for a few weeks now. I'd have to say this is one of the best resources for refinishing Q & A ever. If you guys don't mind, I'd like to steal a little of your knowledge on refinishing. Basically, I'm purchasing a new bass in the next week or so (Fender JP90, not the best bass around, but in playing it recently, the sound was as good as if not better than my buddy's P-bass). That leaves me with a hunk-o-junk Yamaha BB450 bass I bought for $75 back in highschool. It's candy-ish red, which I'm pretty much done with. I'm going to throw in some new pickups in and mess around with the hardware, so I figured it'd be a fun project to re-finish the thing. I've read a lot of tutorials, and let me say I'm completely new to refinishing anything. I haven't found anything specifically relating to the finish I'm looking for (I probably have, though). This is the best picture of this finish I could find:

It's the guitarist for the band dredg, it's hard to tell in the picture, but it looks like a natural sunburst type of finish. There is no actual black on the finish, it seems like a darker brown and obviously fades to an orange-ish stain. I actually noticed it in a video I saw of them, this is just the best picture I could find of it. It looks almost "rustic" in the video, like it was done unprofessionally (in a good way, if that makes sense). I'm planning on stripping the bass hopefully this weekend. Anyhew, maybe there are some topics I may have missed that deal with this, or there are some online tutorials that could help with this. Anything. If more info is needed, let me know! Thanks in advance.

Here the best pic I could come up with if my current bass:

From google

[killemall8]

well, there are a few tutorials in the pinned section of the inlay and finish chat in the reference section. and it would probably look a lot different on that bass because its probably alder, so the wood is way lighter in color than mahogany. but most say a burst finish is too much for a first timer for it to come out well.

[fryovanni]

I stripped down a few guitars when I was getting into repairs and such. I will say that re-finishing is harder than finishing from scratch, at least if you are stripping it down to do a natural burst.

As far as bursts go you can try it with rubbed dye, spraying dye, tinted clears or a combination of these methods. For me it seemed like spraying helped get a more even coat, but rubbing the first coat was ok also. This would be my base/ lightest color. I found it easiest for me to move to tinted clears from there using an air brush, either a two color burst or three. I had to practice on scrap for a while before I could get the angle and speed right, but tinted clears are pretty forgiving. When I tried rubbing it was hard for me to get nice smooth natural looking transitions (they always seemed blotchy or had hard transitions).

The real trick to getting a good finish to me has always been in the prep. When I first tried re-finishing, I thought this was all about getting the wood perfectly smooth. Later I figured out a nice raw surface was needed, but the smooth finish comes from proper fill, and level. The raw surface has to be very level, so you can fill, and finish the leveling without cutting all the way through your filler coats. Then you can top it off with a very light coat and sand/polish it up. Level the raw wood well to about 240. If you have large pores, fill them and block back to level. Then apply filler/ leveling coats (build up enough to not sand through) and level with 800-1500 or so. Then apply a final clear that you can sand/polish to a high shine(you won't need anything coarser than 1500-2000 and take it up to 12000 if you can). People who are much better than me can do the fill/level/polish in one step, but I am not that good.

The type of finish you use and using a proper schedule is really important. You will do best to follow the instructions of someone who is very proficient with the type of finish you are using(be sure they finish wood, not only metals, plastics, fiberglass etc...).

You should plan on practicing on scrap wood for a while before you tackle the instrument. If you can't make it happen on scrap, you don't want to touch your bass.

[Dissentience]

Thanks for the advice guys! Sounds like I'm biting off a little more than I can chew with the whole sunburst finish. I would say that I'm technically and mechanically inclined to re-finish the bass, I love working on projects that are challenging. It's now looking like I either a) need to practice on some scrap for a while or come up with a new finish for it. I'm thinking just a straight natural finish would be technically easier, and it's still pretty close to what I want. The main thing, though, is that I'd like to start a project that is challenging, time consuming, rewarding, and (hopefully) a little fun. Thanks for the schedule idea as well! That could definitely help. I should even do a little more research on the whole method in general. Then again, you can only read so much before you need some hands on experience. Also, this bass isn't exactly of the utmost importance to me, I only paid $75 for it (and a practice amp). There is a little sentimental value to it (I learned everything I know now on it), but all in all it's replaceable.

If I were to aim for getting just a natural finish on it, what would be the best route? I've found some great tutorials on stripping and prepping the body, the one thing I need a little help with would be in choosing a wood stain. Are there certain brands that stand out over others? What sort of application should I expect for a decent natural finish (spray, oil, stain...)? It seems like the forum is a little more technical than I have imagined, (you guys are pros, or at least not amateurs) so I am definitely willing to be patient and learn/study up on the whole process. I understand the wood is potentially a light colored wood (possibly alder, but I'm not 100% on that), so I'm guessing I have a limited color pallete to work with. I just want it to look clean and interesting. If needed, I can research some colors/stains that I like if anyone can help me in choosing a stain. Thanks again for the help! Like I said, anything helps, so if you guys have any more suggestions, tips, or tutorials shoot 'em my way!

[ihocky2]

I would not say that you have a limited color pallete if the wood is alder or some other light wood. In fact I would say you can do almost any colors you want because it is light to begin with. Try turning a piece of mahoganny lemon yellow. Oil finishes give a great natural look and can either have dyes added to some of them or can be applied over a dyed surface. I have found that making your own dyes is easier to work with than premade stains. StewMac sells their own line of dyes, but Trans-Tint is the same thing and can be found through wood working suppliers. Several of the luthier suppliers also sell analine dyes which work the same, they just arrive as a powder.

Check out the Reranch forum. It is guys that are mostly working on Fenders or Fender clones, and go for a vintage look so, there are quite a few guys over there that do great burst finishes and can offer a lot of advice. As for stripping the bass, I would recomend going with a heat gun, it works much quicker and easier than anything else I have tried. You just have to be carefull not to scorch the wood.

[Dissentience]

I would not say that you have a limited color pallete if the wood is alder or some other light wood. In fact I would say you can do almost any colors you want because it is light to begin with. Try turning a piece of mahoganny lemon yellow. Oil finishes give a great natural look and can either have dyes added to some of them or can be applied over a dyed surface. I have found that making your own dyes is easier to work with than premade stains. StewMac sells their own line of dyes, but Trans-Tint is the same thing and can be found through wood working suppliers. Several of the luthier suppliers also sell analine dyes which work the same, they just arrive as a powder.

Check out the Reranch forum. It is guys that are mostly working on Fenders or Fender clones, and go for a vintage look so, there are quite a few guys over there that do great burst finishes and can offer a lot of advice. As for stripping the bass, I would recomend going with a heat gun, it works much quicker and easier than anything else I have tried. You just have to be carefull not to scorch the wood.

Thanks again. I'm am looking at the reranch forums right now actually, they have a lot of info their as well. I'm starting from scratch here as far as painting and stripping tools. I was planning on buying either a heat gun or a sander. How about the application of stain and clear coat? I'll look around for tutorials but if anyone has tips that would be amazing. Thanks.

[ihocky2]

Your stain can either be wiped or sprayed on, your prefernce. If you get dyes they can be mixed into most clears and then sprayed on.

As for applying your clear coats, oil finishes are the easiest to apply since you just wipe them on and then the excess off. Any of the lacquers or urethanes need to be sprayed on, brushing won't cut it. A spray gun and air compressor that can handle the gun is going to spray the best. I would say at least a 30 gallon air compressor is minimum. Airbrushes will work for bursting and can get you by for color coats, but fall way short for spraying the clears. A lot of stores are selling Preval sprayers which is a glass jar and a can of propellant that lets you mix your own fluids and spray as you like. I've used them and don't like the spray pattern, and had a tough time getting good atomization. I would say you are better using rattle cans of nitro lacquer. I personally like the Reranch brand nitro or Deft nitro. You can check some autobody suppliers in your area, some of them will fill spray cans with 2-part urethanes and colors as well.

[Dissentience]

Your stain can either be wiped or sprayed on, your prefernce. If you get dyes they can be mixed into most clears and then sprayed on.

As for applying your clear coats, oil finishes are the easiest to apply since you just wipe them on and then the excess off. Any of the lacquers or urethanes need to be sprayed on, brushing won't cut it. A spray gun and air compressor that can handle the gun is going to spray the best. I would say at least a 30 gallon air compressor is minimum. Airbrushes will work for bursting and can get you by for color coats, but fall way short for spraying the clears. A lot of stores are selling Preval sprayers which is a glass jar and a can of propellant that lets you mix your own fluids and spray as you like. I've used them and don't like the spray pattern, and had a tough time getting good atomization. I would say you are better using rattle cans of nitro lacquer. I personally like the Reranch brand nitro or Deft nitro. You can check some autobody suppliers in your area, some of them will fill spray cans with 2-part urethanes and colors as well.

As I read through this forum and the Reranch forums, it's looking like an oil finish would be ideal for the colors and general look I'm going for. It seems somewhat easy enough, it seems to me to work like a natural stone enhancer (random, i know. I used to install tile and stone and we would "enhance" the stones using an oil based sealer. Basically it darkens and brings the colors out, which I'm assuming is what oil finishes do.), rub on and wipe the excess. What would need to be done to create a gloss/shiny finish? Does the oil finish create that, or would I need to lacquer after the oil finish is complete? I'm such a newb at this stuff. Again, thanks for the info.

[Mickguard]

I don't think you can stain wood that's already been finished, unless you're willing to sand off a good layer of wood to get to the unsealed pores.

Instead, you'll need to look into using tinted lacquer. It's probably easier to get a decent color with lacquer anyway.

Besides, it's good to leave the sealer on there--that stuff is rock hard and really level. It's the hardest and most important part of getting a nice shiny finish.