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Posted

I am a certified Mahogany fan-boy. It is warm, seems strong enough, well-rounded, nice acoustic properties, and just seems to be me. However, I would like to experiment with tung oil, or Waterlox, or whatever, for the neck finish, and Mahogany seems to be not the best for that. With that being said, what are the warmest neck woods that are still tung oil (and similar oil) friendly?

-Cheers

Posted
I am a certified Mahogany fan-boy. It is warm, seems strong enough, well-rounded, nice acoustic properties, and just seems to be me. However, I would like to experiment with tung oil, or Waterlox, or whatever, for the neck finish, and Mahogany seems to be not the best for that. With that being said, what are the warmest neck woods that are still tung oil (and similar oil) friendly?

-Cheers

tung oil should work just fine on Mahogany, but it won't fill pores if that's what you're looking for.

Posted
I am a certified Mahogany fan-boy. It is warm, seems strong enough, well-rounded, nice acoustic properties, and just seems to be me. However, I would like to experiment with tung oil, or Waterlox, or whatever, for the neck finish, and Mahogany seems to be not the best for that. With that being said, what are the warmest neck woods that are still tung oil (and similar oil) friendly?

-Cheers

tung oil should work just fine on Mahogany, but it won't fill pores if that's what you're looking for.

Yeah, I am trying two things: 1) To find a wood that will be super slick with tung oil (or similar), and 2) Force myself to release my death-grip on Mahogany. Mahogany is my security blanket when it comes to tone wood. Not saying that is a bad thing, necessarily . . . However the impression I got is the open-pore nature of Mahogany made it, while functional, not the best choice for tung oiling. Feel free to correct/lambaste me if I am wrong.

-Cheers

Posted

So what's wrong with grain filling the mahogany, then oiling it? Because it seems, at least to my experience, that close-grained woods and a "warm" sound are pretty much mutually exclusive.

For a different wood type, though still open grained, you could try rosewood. Some species have the reputation of being particularly mellow.

Posted

What is your thoughts on limba Rick or anyone? You're working with some now aren't you? Is is closed enough grain to be easy to tru-oil up nice and slick? I'm not very familiar with all the properties of limba(black or white) and if it could be considered as a good replacement in this situation. It always seemed like something between mahogany and maple from what I've heard about it, just wanted to throw that idea out there, to get analzyed. Best of luck. J

Posted

Yeah, I am working on a black limba neck right now. I'm just now shaping it, haven't gotten to the point of finishing it yet.

It's a lot like mahogany in texture, though.

I'm going to Tru-oil it, wet sanding with Tru-oil to serve as grain filler.

Posted

What does "warm" mean? Tone wise I can't see the neck wood making a huge difference, so are you guys talking about looks?

If that's the case, I'd laminate bubinga and maple, just because the bubinga alone might be a bit heavy. Shouldn't have to grain fill either.

Todd

Posted
What does "warm" mean? Tone wise I can't see the neck wood making a huge difference, so are you guys talking about looks?

I mean it as bass-orientates in sound, as opposed to trebley, and smooth not shrill. Maybe the neck is not a huge deal, however I have read some people use a Maple neck (just one example) as a way of getting a sharper attack.

If that's the case, I'd laminate bubinga and maple, just because the bubinga alone might be a bit heavy. Shouldn't have to grain fill either.

Todd

That is actually my original plan. Just wondering if Bubinga w/ Maple stripes would be super bright, or if it would even matter.

-Cheers

Posted
You're wrong :-)

That's a relief. :D

I love the feel of an oiled or shellaced mahogany neck, and I don't pore fill.

Limba's also fantastic to work with.

Excellent!

-Cheers

Posted
What does "warm" mean? Tone wise I can't see the neck wood making a huge difference, so are you guys talking about looks?

If that's the case, I'd laminate bubinga and maple, just because the bubinga alone might be a bit heavy. Shouldn't have to grain fill either.

Todd

I think necks have a significant influence on tone; they're the thinnest bits of wood, lots of direct string tension applied to them, so the way they vibrate will certainly filter the strings.

Posted (edited)
I think necks have a significant influence on tone; they're the thinnest bits of wood, lots of direct string tension applied to them, so the way they vibrate will certainly filter the strings.

Hi Mattia,

I'm not arguing against the neck having an effect. In fact I am sure the neck wood has some effect, but there are so many other variables, I think it's probably minimal and that we make too much of the tonal differences.

Is it a bolt on, set neck, or neck through. Does the neck have carbon fiber rods inserted, is it 1 9/16" at the nut or 1 3/4" and is it .75" deep or .8" deep, are all factors that will have an effect. And the big issues other then the player are really pickups, strings, the amp. Heck, I'd bet the size of the cap on the tone control and the Pot being 250k or 500k will probably have more effect than the 10 or 15% difference in density or stiffness between maple and mahogany. And even among one wood, from one tree, there's variations in stiffness and strength.

Now it may be that you or Perry have actually build two identical guitars other than the neck wood. I wouldn't be surprised if Perry has. But I haven't, and I haven't seen any data that would make me think wood species is a huge factor on tone. I basically think choosing a neck wood based on 3 S's and one C makes more sense: strength/stiffness/stability and cosmetics.

Best regards, and please don't take this as argumentative. And thanks for your advice on all those other things where it's helped me.

Regards,

Todd

PS) Plus one on the feel issue though, like Rick says below. My friends tele has an oiled mahogany neck. Feels nice. Not super slick, but nice.

Edited by ToddW
Posted
What does "warm" mean? Tone wise I can't see the neck wood making a huge difference

I am pretty sure maple makes a brighter guitar. I think we all agree with you that EVERY factor is important, but I wouldn't rule out the neck wood.

This is not "evidence" of any sort, but just some information...

I built a guitar with a maple neck, maple top on mahogany, and bloodwood fingerboard. I made two P-90's for it. Now the P-90's are underwound compared to traditional P-90's, but this guitar is significantly brighter than a LP Junior with 2 P-90's.

In this case I think the biggest factors are: 1) the pickups, and 2) the large amount of maple on the guitar.

That guitar is oil finished, and let me tell you, the neck feels superior to alot of stuff I've played!

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Last summer I got it in my head that I wanted something made of walnut. I got a walnut hardtail Jazzmaster body and a walnut neck with a Pau Ferro fretboard from Warmoth. Pickups are GFS Mean-90's. I just used danish oil. Besides making my room smell good it sounds warm and sweet. Smooth sound. I'm very happy with it. Walnut smells good. :D

Posted (edited)

My wenge/mahogany Thunderbird copy was - for want of a better word - thunderously solid in terms of tone. I wouldn't say "warm", although I would say "dark". In my opinion "warm" infers a softer top end and "slow" sound, and dark to me implies a solid "quicker" sound than "warm". Am I alone in feeling that some woods are "fast" and some "slow" in their sound? I've never played a "snappy" mahogany instrument for example, as they seem to have a slower or less pronounced attack. The neck was a five-piece laminate of "new growth" mahogany on the outers, wenge on the inners and old old old growth mahogany for the centre. The wenge and old mahogany seemed (without A/B'ing of course) to tighten up with attack of the instrument and make it more "immediate". The tone wasn't "soft". Perhap the cocobolo fingerboard contributed to that somewhat.

Perhaps it's just me!

I would suggest rosewood also as already mentioned, but it won't need a finish and won't take oil.

Edited by Prostheta
Posted
I think necks have a significant influence on tone; they're the thinnest bits of wood, lots of direct string tension applied to them, so the way they vibrate will certainly filter the strings.

Hi Mattia,

I'm not arguing against the neck having an effect. In fact I am sure the neck wood has some effect, but there are so many other variables, I think it's probably minimal and that we make too much of the tonal differences.

Is it a bolt on, set neck, or neck through. Does the neck have carbon fiber rods inserted, is it 1 9/16" at the nut or 1 3/4" and is it .75" deep or .8" deep, are all factors that will have an effect. And the big issues other then the player are really pickups, strings, the amp. Heck, I'd bet the size of the cap on the tone control and the Pot being 250k or 500k will probably have more effect than the 10 or 15% difference in density or stiffness between maple and mahogany. And even among one wood, from one tree, there's variations in stiffness and strength.

Now it may be that you or Perry have actually build two identical guitars other than the neck wood. I wouldn't be surprised if Perry has. But I haven't, and I haven't seen any data that would make me think wood species is a huge factor on tone. I basically think choosing a neck wood based on 3 S's and one C makes more sense: strength/stiffness/stability and cosmetics.

Best regards, and please don't take this as argumentative. And thanks for your advice on all those other things where it's helped me.

Regards,

Todd

PS) Plus one on the feel issue though, like Rick says below. My friends tele has an oiled mahogany neck. Feels nice. Not super slick, but nice.

Actually you should listen to Mattia on this one. In my experience the neck woods plays a substantial role in the guitars sound.

Obviously there are many factors impacting the sound of an electric guitar, but you cant overlook the most important ones (and the neck is important) when building for a particular sound.

So back on topic, I would suggest black limba for a mahogany replacement. It works just like mahogany and has a very similar feel and pore structure. I agree with Mattia that both limba and mahogany feel great with no pore filling and just oil.

Posted
Actually you should listen to Mattia on this one. In my experience the neck woods plays a substantial role in the guitars sound.

+1

Neck wood and fretboard play an important role in the final sound. Body wood/top wood play an important role as well... and even ... the body shape... yes.. there you have it... I said it. The body shape.

Pickups will have a HUGE impact on sound for sure but they have to work with what's present acoustically.

Posted
So back on topic, I would suggest black limba for a mahogany replacement. It works just like mahogany and has a very similar feel and pore structure. I agree with Mattia that both limba and mahogany feel great with no pore filling and just oil.

Wouldn't that have the same porous feel as Mahogany though? Of course I think I will just try a Mahogany neck w/ an oil finish just to see for myself. I could always lightly sand it and have a normal finish later, couldn't I?

Out of curiosity, how bright/dark/warm/brittle/etc. would a Bubinga w/ Maple laminate neck be?

-Cheers

Posted

Yes limba is porous like mahogany, the pores aren't quite as big, but very close.

You could pretty much bet a hard maple/bubinga laminate would be very stiff and have a very crisp tone.

Personally my favorite neck construction is a 5 piece flamed western maple and ebony.

Posted

During my marketing studies in B-school we watched videos of individuals trying to pick the Stella Artois Beer from 3 glasses of beer. People were pretty sure they could tell which was the Stella when there were 3 glasses. But after they got their first guess wrong, they were even more confident between the last two glasses. In other words, the differences in taste between the two remaining glasses made it easier, right?

Of course all 3 glasses had identical beer in them, and none were Stella Artois. The problem is, expectations influence perception.

Now I've never said neck wood had no influence. I just think trying to figure out what the effect is, is still pretty close to voodoo once you add in all the other variables.

I do wonder if there's any way to do a blinded test on whether you can actually pick the neck wood by ear?

Maybe take 3 otherwise identical strats . . . with different neck woods . . . but same neck finish . . . same fretboard material . . . PUPs . . . blindfold the player . . .

Until I win the lottery, I'm not going to set it up, but tell you what :D if I ever do win the powerball jackpot, I'll set it up. :D

Todd

Posted

All wood effects are pretty damn close to voodoo once you pump humbuckers through a high-gain marshall. And in most blind listening tests, it's tough to pick out the differences between guitars. Thing is, it's about the player, not the listener, and different guitars respond differently and feel different, and yes, some of it is psychological.

My personal (unscientific, untested) opinion is that strings, scale length, pickups, body construction (chambered/solid), neck wood, body wood, body shape affect tone, roughly in that order, most of the time. In other words: neck wood's certainly an important factor to take into account, but not as important as solid construction (good joinery, good fretwork, CF bars/no CF bars, good quality hardware and mounting).

And we're ignoring the other half of the instrument here, ie the amplifier, without which an electric guitar is just a plank of wood with some strings on.

Posted

Getting back to this:

You're wrong :-)

I love the feel of an oiled or shellaced mahogany neck, and I don't pore fill.

Limba's also fantastic to work with.

For Mahogany, do most of you guys (a/o gals) just oil the necks, or is there some tried-&-tried way to pore fill and then oil for a super slick/fast neck? I am fine with just oiling it (or Waterlox or whatever). Just garnering opinions.

You could pretty much bet a hard maple/bubinga laminate would be very stiff and have a very crisp tone.

Personally my favorite neck construction is a 5 piece flamed western maple and ebony.

Thanks! Maple/Ebony sounds like it would make a pretty bright neck, but pretty stiff. I be it looks kind of cool too (probably like a Bubinga/Maple w/ a darker contrast).

Any guesses how something like an LP body or LP DC body with a Bubinga/Maple neck would sound? I am thinking an RG-body with LP thickness & woods, set-neck, Gibson scale, etc., and really unsure what neck wood to use, just know that I want to try it oiled. Thinking Mahogany, but open to thoughts on the different choices here with that design, or just in general how the neck woods with an LP Standard or some sort of LP-inspired double cut would change in sound with different woods.

-Cheers

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