Trouble Dying Figured Maple

[jer7440]

I've had this trouble several times with quilted maple. There seem to be areas of grain that just don't want to take dye. I am usind aniline dyes dissolved in water. I'm wiping directly onto the maple. Am I missing something? Do I just need to keep adding more dye until these areas take some color? Thanks.

[fryovanni]

I've had this trouble several times with quilted maple. There seem to be areas of grain that just don't want to take dye. I am usind aniline dyes dissolved in water. I'm wiping directly onto the maple. Am I missing something? Do I just need to keep adding more dye until these areas take some color? Thanks.

Is the difference mainly a side grain vs end grain difference(as the grain rolls about), or is does it appear to be spots that make no sense with the grain(like surface contamination)? Maybe a picture would be handy.

[jer7440]

hey Rich, I will try to explain as my lousy camera won't give me a good picture of it. The wood has the "quilt" type grain, but it also has "straight grain lines running through it. The straight grain lines don't seem to dye well. Here is a picture after all...a little blurry but...it shows my problem

see how the vertical running grain lines stay woody looking and not dyed? Is this normal and I'm just not seeing it? Do I just need to add more dye?

[John Abbett]

Is that wood right off a mechanical sander or planer, or did you sand it by hand? Is it possible that some areas are sanded more then others?

Just a thought. I know when I want to sand end grain to match for staining, I have to sand it a LOT more then the face grains. It looks like you have end grain soaking up the stain and the other grains not.

Have you tried using a damp cloth to pre-wet the wood before staining? It helps keep the stain a little more even. (Damp, not wet).

-John

[jer7440]

I did pre-wet the wood... and to be honest this test piece is not sanded very good. I just grabbed a piece and threw some dye on it to illustrate the problem.

[John Abbett]

I did the same thing a couple of weeks ago. Some blue dye from woodcraft, powder form in water. I ended up with a similar problem. I sanded it back and added a second layer of dye, and it came out much better. I think I hadn't sanded well enough (I was just testing). My lumber came off the band saw (Resaw) and it didn't work at all. I sanded part of it with my palm sander, and it was much better.

I sanded to 320..

Please keep this threat posted with what you find as you work through this. I'm going through the same things.

-John

[ToddW]

Is it the higher/raised grain that isn't taking stain. Could be your band saw/planer/jointer or such burnished the wood a bit. I agree that sanding it all down and trying again is worth the effort. I'd go to 180grit or 220 for the test.

[jer7440]

If you click on my picture you can see the "quilted" patches are the really dark areas. Then there are some sort of wavy grain lines that run mostly vertical in the picture. They seem to stay brown when I would expect them to just be darker blue. Maybe my expectations are incorrect.

[jmrentis]

As something rich reminded me of the other day, you could also tint the clear. This would really take away any uneven splotchiness that the wood might create. Thinking back to one of Perry's he did a wipe on stain, but also did a tinted clear layer to give it an almost burst look with the same color. Worth a shot if you aren't finding what you are looking for. Best of luck. J

[Maiden69]

I can't see the pics, but from experience I can tell you that if the maple is not sanded right the stain will not look even. This was the main problem why BigD maples didn't look right a lot of times. I always sand mine to 320, damp it to raise the grain, and sand. I repeat until no grain stands up when dampened. I think that I have done that with up to 600 dry a few times, make sure that you use an airgun or compressed air to blow the dust out of thegrain because it will make it darker since the dust will absorb the stain too.

[fryovanni]

This relates mainly to the structure of the wood. You can see the more exposed end or short grain sucking up the dye like a champ. The areas with mostely side grain exposed are sucking up less. The differences you are seeing at the growth rings relates to early wood (being more pourous with thinner cell walls) sucking up more dye, and late wood (having much denser structure with smaller pore structure) sucking up less. You may do well to scrape the surface as opposed to sanding, this opens up the pores instead of crushing them and filling then with debris.

I have done better with less watered down dyes(stronger first coats). After you apply the first coat the wood will swell and your late wood is going to want to accept less dye(you may have experienced this as you tried to apply more coats of dye with little effect), if you allow it to completely dry it may accept more stain better. The more exposed late wood you have in a piece the harder it will be to deal with. Wood that is flatsawn or rift exposes more late wood. Well quartered wood exposes less and is easier to deal with (just FWIW). I do like tinting clears better than wiping dye, because you can get nice control and I like the way the different grain angles reflect light without dye pushed close to the surface.

Hope that helps some,

Rich

[jer7440]

Thanks a lot everyone. Plenty to think about. I will do some more experiments and report back.