Need Some Help, Bridge Is Too High

[doctadre1]

Hey everyone. Im building a PRS style guitar for myself, and ran into some problems. I found the matched neck and body on ebay. I was gonna set the neck myself, paint and route out the pickups, etc.

I was not getting the neck angle correctly, so I took the guitar and neck to a local guitar repair guy to set the neck and install the bridge posts. It turns out that he didnt make the angle steep enough, nor the neck high enough ( I sanded too far down the pocket, and the neck probably needed a shim to raise it).

Now the neck is glued, and the posts are in, and when I did a preliminary check on the string action and such, it was totally off. I have included some pics for reference.

The bridge is too high, and the neck is too low. What the heck can I do to save this awesome project>??? Id like to have the action normal, not a centimeter above the frets!!!

The only thing I can think of is lowering the bridge by routing the holes deeper into the body. That wont save much but it could help. Any tips and help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Andre

[Mickguard]

If the neck and body were matched, why did you need to have anything done to it? Doesn't make sense.

And you probably shouldn't have glued the neck before you checked the fit of all the parts.

Well, do a search for 'recessed bridge' . Since the body's not finished, you still have that option. But the way it looks, you're going to have to recess it a hell of a lot. And you're going to need to make it a string through, since you're likely to lose access to the wraparound.

And you're going to have to recess the pickups as well, they risk being too high otherwise.

Maybe take it back to that local repair guy and tell him since he screwed up the project (because he did, he should have known better), he ought to fix it -- he can at least remove the neck, so you can rebuild the neck pocket (which would be my first choice to save this).

[jaycee]

Maybe take it back to that local repair guy and tell him since he screwed up the project (because he did, he should have known better), he ought to fix it -- he can at least remove the neck, so you can rebuild the neck pocket (which would be my first choice to save this).

+1

I was going to say make sure you have the correct scale length setup on it, but I noticed the frets are in, so I assume you have

[doctadre1]

The pieces were built by the same person, but no neck angle was used yet.

I think the best option is to ask the local repair guy to try to remove the neck. Is this possible without damaging the parts?

Then we can place a shim to raise the bridge and have the proper neck angle in.

If I lowered the bridge to at least rest flat on the top, it saves a milimeter or 2, and helps ,but still isnt ideal.

Thanks

Andre

[guitar2005]

Maybe your local luthier guy didn't have the bridge in hand when he set the neck in and set it for a hardtail bridge. That's the only thing I can see working on that guitar right now, but even that might me too high. How much height do you have under the your straight edge at the bridge location?

Edited June 23, 2008 by guitar2005

[Geo]

Recessing the bridge looks like the simplest option. You could route out some wood around the bridge and still use the integral tailpiece. Otherwise, maybe switch to a recessed TOM without a tailpiece and run the strings through the body. To me, any of those solutions is better than removing and resetting the neck.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Geo

[doctadre]

The local guy had the bridge when he set the neck. He probably didnt fully analyze the situation and moved to set the neck too quickly, thinking that it was fine. Im going to talk to him today about the problem and see what his solutions are.

I am also sending an email to the original builder of the pieces to get some of his insight.

Would removing the neck be potentially dangerous? It would be the best solution to just add a shim, but if it could damage the pieces, I could just lower the bridge a bit.

I dont even have to recess the bridge into the body, but if I just let the posts sit low enough so that the bridge is flat against the top, this could make the action decent.

Thanks

Andre

[Mickguard]

I dont even have to recess the bridge into the body, but if I just let the posts sit low enough so that the bridge is flat against the top, this could make the action decent.

Well...maybe. Chances are though that the bridge will still ride up too high --that's just the nature of this type of bridge. It may look right, but you'll be wanting to get that last couple of millimeters, and you won't be able to.

You'll know easily enough -- right now you really need to fit the pickups and string it up before you do anything else. From there, you'll know what the issues are.

I'm leaning toward recessing the bridge now too (assuming the pickups fit as well). It's the easiest to pull off, and it looks pretty cool too.

The big question then will be whether there's enough clearance for you to pick comfortably.

I think taking the neck out will be something for an expert--doesn't sound like your guy is up to the job.

At any rate, this is all part of the learning process...we've all been there!

[fryovanni]

Personally, I would pull the neck, adjust the heel to get the right angle, and glue it back up. Funny thing about this issue is that you have the tool in your picture, and know how to use it to detect whether you had the angle correct. If the glue is fresh you should be able to soften it with heat and pull the neck without too much trouble.

Rich

[RAI6]

Funny thing about this issue is that you have the tool in your picture, and know how to use it to detect whether you had the angle correct.

Rich

Too bad that the guy that did the job didn't have the same tool......

[doctadre]

Yea exactly. The only reason that I didnt do it was that I have never done a set neck before, and knew I would need shims. I even explained the situation to the guy. I am going to explain the problem tomorrow. Im disappointed but know that we can remedy this somehow.

He glued the neck in last week. I am not sure what the curing times for wood glue are, but is there still a way we can remove the neck safely and easily?

Right now its either remove the neck, shim it up and have perfect action, or try to recess the bridge. I dont think a tune o matic would work because the post positions are slightly wider for the wraparound bridge. I will double check this, however. I still want to stay with the wraparound, since Im making a replica of Tim Mahoney (311)'s guitar, and want it to be close to his!

We'll see tomorrow what this guy says, and whether he is going to go out of his way to help me.

Thanks for the input guys.

Andre

[Geo]

I dont think a tune o matic would work because the post positions are slightly wider for the wraparound bridge. I will double check this, however. I still want to stay with the wraparound, since Im making a replica of Tim Mahoney (311)'s guitar, and want it to be close to his!

Just FYI (and I'm not recommending this on this project), you CAN fill the holes and redrill. Just so you know.

[doctadre]

Yes, I know that can be done. At this point I am either going to remove the neck and do the neck angle right, or try to lower the bridge a bit and see what we can ge tout of it. I will speak to the luthier tomorrow and see what he thinks.

Thanks for all your help. Any other ideas are welcome

Andre

[GregP]

I hesitate to call him a luthier if he made such a basic mistake. ;-)

But anyhow...no new advice to give. Just commiserating. Sux, dude.

[doctadre]

Ok here are some updates. I had the guitar tech remove the neck, which he did successfully. Then I had him add a shim to he pocket to both raise the neck and add the proper angle. He seems to be quite slow, and is not understanding things. He keeps saying that if the angle is too great then the strings will not play at the top frets. I dont think he is correct in this case.

I had him contact me to check his work before he glued again. Today I saw the shim and it still wasnt right!! I tried explain to him that the shim was too high and he needed to angle it, but he said it couldnt be done.

I took the guitar back home, and decided that I can do this, with my own common sense and education, and some of your help.

After examining things, I know what needs to be done. The shim needs to be angled a little bit, and possibly thinned. I am going to do this in steps and slowly, so that I get it right. I will take some pictures and attach, so you can see what the guy was doing and what needs to be done to improve this.

Dre

[doctadre]

Here are some pics

this gives you an idea of what the guy was doing. Glad I got in there and stopped him!!!!!!

So what do you guys think? If I alter only the shim, then anymistakes will be very much reversible. I think that all I need to do is angle the shim a bit, and possibly make it thinner all around. Then the neck will sit lower and be even with the bridge on an angle.

Thanks

Dre

[RFR]

Dre,

All you need is the proper neck angle.

You do not need the neck sticking that high off the body.

Take the shim he installed OUT! Throw it away.

Keep your bridge on the body and at the end of the neck pocket start stacking Veneer, business cards, pickguard plastic, what ever works to elevate the heel of the neck.

Keep checking till you get the right angle and the action where you would want it.

Once this is done then make a tapered mahogany shim.

Roman

[fryovanni]

Dre,

All you need is the proper neck angle.

You do not need the neck sticking that high off the body.

Take the shim he installed OUT! Throw it away.

Keep your bridge on the body and at the end of the neck pocket start stacking Veneer, business cards, pickguard plastic, what ever works to elevate the heel of the neck.

Keep checking till you get the right angle and the action where you would want it.

Once this is done then make a tapered mahogany shim.

Roman

Dre,

Roman is spot on the money No need to jack the neck way up with that huge ugly block. You just need to angle the neck so it is aiming up to the bridge. Just as Roman mentioned stack material in the front of the pocket, the heel of the neck and back of the pocket should be touching(no shimming at the back, this is just to get a good estimate of the required taper). You can use that beam you showed in your earlier pictures to tell you when the angle is high enough to hit the bridge correctly. After you have it at the right angle, measure the thickness of your shim material at the front of the pocket, and use that to determine how thick you need the shim at that end(you may want to start with a slightly thicker shim than you figure you need, so you can bring it down to a perfect fit). Be sure the shim is long enough to run all the way from the front of the pocket to the back after you are finished adjusting it. You want at least a wisper of shim material at the back of the pocket to ensure you fully seat the neck to the shim(if the shim didn't go all the way to the back of the pocket you could have a gap between the neck and shim). Be sure that the shim is equally thick from side to side at the ends, and the shim has nice flat surfaces. It will be a very small piece, so take your time and don't get too agressive when you are making it, slow and accurate. If you don't have a small dial caliper to accurately measure thickness, you may want to pick one up (they can be had for less than $20) and it will really make measuring much easier(and will help you feel more confident that you are accurate).

Rich

[Geo]

That "luthier" has no idea what he's doing!

[metallisomething]

How did he remove the neck once it was set in? Also how would you recommend making a shim so small, but that has to be so flat and precise?

Edited July 21, 2008 by metallisomething