Jump to content

String-thru Retainer Vs Back Ferrules


Recommended Posts

Hi,

What would be the benefits of using a string retaining bar instead of back ferrules? Godin Guitars uses it. I'm not talking about cosmetics or usage, that's something else. I did a search, but didn't find anything very useful. I'm french, I don't even know how to call that in english!

I would use it with a Hipshot Hardtail string-thru. It's like having a 2nd bridge; the plate is bolted directly on the body, and each individual string can benefit from a larger contact surface with the body.

Am I completely off-track? Any thoughts? I'm sure somebody here used it. If only I knew the name of that thing...

Thanks,

David

031146e.jpg

Edited by MescaBug
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sonicly no benefit, production benefits easier to install, less chance of damaging the finish, cheaper flat stamped metal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sonicly no benefit, production benefits easier to install, less chance of damaging the finish, cheaper flat stamped metal.

Don't want to be rude but I don't agree with that at all. If I was Godin, making guitars for more than 20 years, and producing more than a thousand a year, and having top of line production machines, I wouldn't care about misalign ferrules..

Most guitars company uses ferrules on entry level and top of the line models. I don't think cost and production rate is a factor here. Most 150$ string-thru production guitars have their ferrules perfectly aligned. Machines rarely screw up. I can tell from experience that a well-machined piece of brass cost more than cheap Asian made ferrules.

Sonicly no benefit... Do you have any specific experience to back it up? What material was used in your experiment (brass, steel), what type of wood, what type of bridge. I'm just curious why it didn't had any effect on tone whatsoever.

I'm no trying to debate what is the best, I want to hear from people who actually tried it. I'm not afraid of trying it either, but having some opinions first is sometimes better.

no need to worry about slightly misaligned ferrules which always show up really badly...

Well, that's not the way I'm thinking... I don't think my customers would like to hear that. I care about everything I do, and that includes perfectly aligned ferrules, which can look good when done properly. Avoiding a delicate task by going the easy way is not an option for me.

Edited by MescaBug
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sonicly no benefit... Do you have any specific experience to back it up? What material was used in your experiment (brass, steel), what type of wood, what type of bridge. I'm just curious why it didn't had any effect on tone whatsoever.

Yes. Used on top and back. The string terminates between the nut and bridge saddle and after that the stop points should not have any vibration or you will have tone loss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What information are looking for specifically, cause both posters so far listed benefits of the string retainer over back ferrules as per your request and you seemed to disagree or disreguard the information offered. I just don't understand what exactly it is you are looking for? What they listed are benefits of using the retainer bar over individual ferrules, has the initial question been misunderstood? As per the sound difference, I have a feeling that whole thing will turn into a useless debate, stuff like that is generally objective meaning if there were a difference in sound it may sound better to you and worse to someone else, so its best just to experiment yourself to see what you prefer and even then that is IF you can hear the difference. J

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What information are looking for specifically, cause both posters so far listed benefits of the string retainer over back ferrules as per your request and you seemed to disagree or disreguard the information offered.

If you read my post carefully, you'll notice that it was clear that I was referring to 'tone' benefits. Both posters replied using a string retainer is cost effective, easier to install and can be a good grounding point, which are all good points. I totally agree with that. But do you see anything 'tone' related? Cause I can't. So yes I disregarded these information, not because they are not interesting but because they don't answer what I was looking for.

Yes. Used on top and back. The string terminates between the nut and bridge saddle and after that the stop points should not have any vibration or you will have tone loss.

Thanks. That explains why it shouldn't have any, or none, effect on tone. Good point.

Edited by MescaBug
Link to comment
Share on other sites

no need to worry about slightly misaligned ferrules which always show up really badly...

Well, that's not the way I'm thinking... I don't think my customers would like to hear that. I care about everything I do, and that includes perfectly aligned ferrules, which can look good when done properly. Avoiding a delicate task by going the easy way is not an option for me.

you asked what the benefits might be... the fact its easier to get it looking tidy is a definate benefit of that method whether you choose to do it or not!!

i am not saying ferrules never look tidy and i am not saying the plate is better! .... i am saying that the slightest amount of misalignment on ferrules can make them look absolutely awfull.

I also care about everything i do.. but i will confess i have added wood plates to the ferrules area when it has gone slightly out of line and i find it to be an aesthetically pleasing fix to an annoying problem. My customers would be displeased to hear i had scrapped and restarted a guitar because of a .5mm misalignment of a string ferrule.

:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did read again your first post and it doesn´t mention that you are looking for tone benefits (if any) in this method. Maybe you meant that by "not cosmetics or usage", but it might have come across a bit unclear. Both posters did give you their insights on it, hopefully they answered it to your entire satisfaction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thats alright... sorry if i came across a bit grouchy today but its warmer than i like at the moment and that generally turns me into an old man :D

The next dude who tells me "It's not the heat, it's the humidity" gets punched in the nads. I don't care what it is, it's hot! Sweating when you're NOT ACTIVE AT ALL is just wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thats alright... sorry if i came across a bit grouchy today but its warmer than i like at the moment and that generally turns me into an old man :D

The next dude who tells me "It's not the heat, it's the humidity" gets punched in the nads. I don't care what it is, it's hot! Sweating when you're NOT ACTIVE AT ALL is just wrong.

those lovely dog days have made it

its been over 100 degrees (sorry don't know the conversion) the last few days and its not even august yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

If you can work wood, you can work brass or aluminum with relative ease. You should be able to get a suitable sized piece of either material at hobby or hardware stores, or scrap yards for pocket change. A drill press and a bit of filing and you're ready to go. If you want to go with a thinner plate-style version like Godin uses, it would be even easier. Brass has the advantage that you can solder a ground wire to it easily. I've also had better luck getting lacquer to stick to it, which may be a consideration.

I'm wary of the mojo-speak on the linked page. There may well be a change in tone, but when the language comes across like that and they're selling you a piece of metal like that for 40 bucks, my radar goes off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm wary of the mojo-speak on the linked page. There may well be a change in tone, but when the language comes across like that and they're selling you a piece of metal like that for 40 bucks, my radar goes off.

I am with you on that. Most of that language is subjective. But I have seen posts from other builders/players that do think they make a difference in tone.

Does a top loading bridge generate different tonal characteristics as compared to string-through configuration?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm wary of the mojo-speak on the linked page. There may well be a change in tone, but when the language comes across like that and they're selling you a piece of metal like that for 40 bucks, my radar goes off.

I agree 100% about the "mojo-speak." I can't stand that stuff. I have, however, heard that the Tiapan parts are nice. They sure look good in the pictures. Dubious total benefits aside, if you consider the quality of the finished pieces, and the fact that they're machined on a small production basis by a guy that's trying to make a living doing this, I don't think $40 is a bad deal.

Anyway, I've used retainer blocks on a couple of guitars, and I prefer them to ferrules. Mostly for the reasons Wes stated -- they're just easier to deal with. I also prefer the look. It's a bit more unique than ferrules. Honestly, I don't think I'll ever use ferrules on any of my from scratch builds again. (Actually, I prefer top-loading bridges anyway, but I haven't found one I like that doesn't break the bank.)

Here are a couple I've done. The first is 1/8" spring steel, the second is full 1" thick bass.

http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~wrobert/vax-testfit5.jpg

http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~wrobert/rg_hw.jpg

http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~wrobert/rg-done11.jpg

Edited by fookgub
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...