kpcrash Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 ok, ok, I got excited and forgot Steinberger. Just that to me - Balsa might as well be a hollow body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 ok, ok, I got excited and forgot Steinberger. Just that to me - Balsa might as well be a hollow body. There are a lot of creative ideas being toyed with. Look at acoustic double top soundboards. Some are integrating materials such as Nomex honeycomb material between thin softwood front and back material. They are producing some very light and efficient composit laminated parts. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted August 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 On a tonal note, why would a metal player CARE about the delicate tonal qualities of a piece of wood? They generally process the signal to the point that tone from the wood is completely absent. This is so untrue and insulting...every time I hear it the ignorance of the statement can't help but raise my hackles a bit. Don't it seem that when someone makes a general statement, the exception to the rule steps up just to prove him wrong? Nothing personal Wes... no offense intended, none taken. No, the players I was referring to are the ones that grab a Boss Metal Zone (MT-2) or something similar, push the distortion all the way, pull the bass & treble, and scoop the mids all the way out. Add an invader pup in the bridge (which is bassy to begin with), and a lot of palm muting, and you have a recipe for what I was talking about. At that point, the guitar becomes more of an intoned percussion instrument than a traditional guitar. If that's what the player wants, then that's great for them. I like that once in a while too. All I'm saying is that when you do that to the signal, the wood tone is pretty much a moot point. Thanks to zyonsdream for starting that thread! Um.... I started it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Sorry - meant the one about plywood guitars here Not that I'm not enjoying this thread just as much I'm actually in North Carolina this week, plan on hitting some of the lumber suppliers around as it seems all the places on eBay I find are in N.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 No, the players I was referring to are the ones that grab a Boss Metal Zone (MT-2) or something similar, push the distortion all the way, pull the bass & treble, and scoop the mids all the way out. Add an invader pup in the bridge (which is bassy to begin with), and a lot of palm muting, and you have a recipe for what I was talking about. I am laughing my ass off right now...Want to know why?Years ago,I played a Schecter Omen 6 with an invader in the bridge,through a Marshal MG 100 watt head,with a Boss Metal Zone pedal,scooped....At the time I thought it was so awesome,but that was before I joined here and became a tone snob.. Jokes on me I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 HA!!!! Not to hijack too much - first guitar, no-name with EMG-81 through DS-1 to Peavey half-stack T=7 M=2 B=3, volume at 8 - YEAH!!!!! Then, when puberty ended .... I kept my DS-1 for bass use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Well,my FIRST was a Kamen plywood special with a Tone Zone in the bridge,Which I promptly played for about 10 years,loving every second of it in blissful ignorance until I wore string sized grooves through the frets at frets 1-12...at which point I bought an Ibanez japanese Sabre for $800( a steal...they were listed at $1600 at the time...the exact same model Alex Skolnick played) You know what's funny...?I liked the Kamen better,even though the Sabre was a much better guitar,and the Kamen would not stay in tune through an entire song... Still have the Sabre,with a Warmoth neck and ss frets,'cause I wore the original Jumbo frets flat on the Wizard neck as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 My first was a Memphis. It was a real P.O.S. I traded a dude at school dead even for his no-name explorer. Sometime after the first year, I bought an SG with Duncans in it. I have NO idea what they were. I got a Steinberger for High School graduation, but I had to trade in the SG. I was better off with the SG. Steinbergers have really narrow necks. I have huge hands. It wasn't until I got my Carvin kit (wide neck) that I knew the difference. I always thought I just played badly. It turned out the neck was too narrow for me and I couldn't play well on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundsteelblues Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 I'm actually in North Carolina this week, plan on hitting some of the lumber suppliers around as it seems all the places on eBay I find are in N.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 I'm actually in North Carolina this week, plan on hitting some of the lumber suppliers around as it seems all the places on eBay I find are in N.C Try The Hardwood Store of North Carolina in Gibsonville. Will be there at 2:30 tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko_Lps Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 I would say that ash is lighter and ist better for staining it because of that pale colour,grain filling also is easyer on ash as someone said before. Anyways,someone mentioned that ash and oak are have the same hardness..Dont think so...No way... Red oak is not that good compared to white US oak...I bought some US quartersawn white oak for a work i had to do and it was simply awsome,easy to work with and hard rock!Ash is not that rock solid,but its lighter.. If youre thinking to use oak try to avoid the european oak,its a bit harder than the us one,but not so stable and a lot heavyer.. Good for doors,chairs,furnitures i would not use that EU oak for guitars.. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Northern ash is very hard...that's what they use in alot of baseball bats.Southern ash is different...that was already mentioned though,don't know how you missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Yeah, my 1983 Fender Lead II was Northern ash. 3/4 size body (like a junior strat) yet heavy as hell. I also did some drilling and pickup routing on it, so I know how hard it was in that respect too. And I'm not sold on light weight wood only being good for a guitar. I've certainly heard plenty of swamp ash strats that sounded horrible. And heavy ash strats that sound great (pretty sure Jake E Lee's main whitey is heavy Northern ash) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko_Lps Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Northern ash is very hard...that's what they use in alot of baseball bats.Southern ash is different...that was already mentioned though,don't know how you missed it. Because its used in baseball bats it does not mean that its as hard as oak...Actually there was a documentary about the baseball bats that ive seen and it said:That i does not break so easy as other woods because it has the ability to bend(slightly) and resonate after the hit... Oak is way harder than ash,also when you route ash with strange router bits that make a big removal to wood ash seems unable to hold one piece and makes some cracks,oak does not do that.. I still like a lot more ash than oak,if you compare it with US oak that i unfortunately used only one time,i think that the only diff is that oak has a lot more tight grain and it does not break small corners as ash do,EU oak is a lot harder than the us one but not good quality wood to work with.. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwoodi...er/hardness.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_tree http://www.articlesender.com/Life-Style/Ho...od-Flooring.htm Every article I find puts white oak(what we have here)and european oak as all but the same thing...and nothing I read indicates significant hardness differences between them...ash is also listed as very similar in hardness to white oak,but harder than red oak...so I have to say I have no idea on what your assertion is based.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko_Lps Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwoodi...er/hardness.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_tree http://www.articlesender.com/Life-Style/Ho...od-Flooring.htm Every article I find puts white oak(what we have here)and european oak as all but the same thing...and nothing I read indicates significant hardness differences between them...ash is also listed as very similar in hardness to white oak,but harder than red oak...so I have to say I have no idea on what your assertion is based.... Ok,maybe US oak is proccesed with a better way thats way it seems softer to me.Im a carpenter in proffesion,i bought in 2003 2,5 cubic meters of US quartersawn oak for 3400 euro(each c.m.),usualy i get that amount of eu(bulgarian or whatever)for 1.600 euro(each c.m.) but not quarter sawn.That EU oak seems to be a lot denser,HEAVYER and hard to work with in the machines..Also,i wood that i bought about a year ago was filled with small cracks,and when i picked it up it seemed JUST fine..My bandsaw that is a bit biig you can feel that its loosing RPM when slicing that EU wood(5cm[2"]cut),unforunately have to work with because noone is paying for US oak..I mean that this US oak that i worked with was walking so fast in the bandsaw as almost as mahogany...Now the euro one i give you small very possibilities to see that... Sure i dont doubt the facts that you read and i read about how dense or hard a wood is,but when it comes to bandsaw plane wrasp etc tones of wood(aka in action) i think that you will notice what i say. It seems odd but still reality,please dont think that i try to say something diff. to play the "smart" one,its just what i see when i work with them,and ive worked tones of those wood species. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 I hear you...But I think maybe the oak you think of as "american" is actually live oak or something,which I am unfamiliar with except that I have one in my yard...but my town is full of the english oak,which is very dense,as you say...but not much more so than northern ash,which is very hard indeed as well. The difference you may be noticing in what you cut is the grain...which is very different indeed,and oak is full of knots and knarled sections. I am not impugning you at all...I just think ash of the northern variety may be harder than you think...but oak is a tuffy todeal with,for sure...I hate that wood. Interestingly enough...Mesquite is listed as harder than oak on the Jenka scale,yet it cuts more easily than oak... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 also when you route ash with strange router bits that make a big removal to wood ash seems unable to hold one piece and makes some cracks,oak does not do that.. Oh So it was the strange router bit that threw me off . Should have first asked that router bit about his childhood, his likes/dislikes, all the typical "get to know him" stuff so that he won't want to lie to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko_Lps Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 also when you route ash with strange router bits that make a big removal to wood ash seems unable to hold one piece and makes some cracks,oak does not do that.. Oh So it was the strange router bit that threw me off . Should have first asked that router bit about his childhood, his likes/dislikes, all the typical "get to know him" stuff so that he won't want to lie to me. Instead of playing the smart one,that youre not..You could wonder what i mean cause i cant be accurate explaining what i mean. In that case Mr.Smart i mean big router bits not the regular small ones.You know what i mean now or perhaps i sould send you a drawing,it could be handy to your case.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 To be fair,he said strange,not disturbed...sometimes a lack of social skills can be interpreted as strange,in which case the router bit,lacking social skills,just worked on the ash's nerves until it cracked.... Who is Mr.smart?I have not seen this dude.... But seriously,lighten up,soap's just making a funny-ish comment...laughter is the best medicine...for stuff...like maybe anger issues or something...but not for a cough,in which case dimetapp is pretty good....maybe not the best...44D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko_Lps Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 To be fair,he said strange,not disturbed...sometimes a lack of social skills can be interpreted as strange,in which case the router bit,lacking social skills,just worked on the ash's nerves until it cracked.... Who is Mr.smart?I have not seen this dude.... But seriously,lighten up,soap's just making a funny-ish comment...laughter is the best medicine...for stuff...like maybe anger issues or something...but not for a cough,in which case dimetapp is pretty good....maybe not the best...44D? Its supposed to exchange different points of view or conversating about something and share to each other what we know.Now some may say something that i would not understand or mybe stupid by my judjement.I wont start shooting ironies to play the "Mr.smart" just because i have nothing more to say. Now youve seen the Mr.Smart westhemann? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 Now youve seen the Mr.Smart westhemann? uhhh...I don't know??maybe? Hey it's all coolie wit me sho'nuff Nick-dizzle... Besides,I think all has been said about ash vs oak,don't you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 "Different points of view" is that there, in fact, are at least two different types of Ash used in production guitar building. I've got a hunk of the hard Northern Ash in my wood scrap box, if I need to reconfirm how hard and dense it is (which it certainly is) I've also got boxes of oak flooring scrap and half of it is quite light. (still fairly hard, but HHS bits have zero problem with it) Forget Mr. Smart, where's Agent 99 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 ah , come on... any fool that can use google knows there are man types of ash, some of the heavy northern stuff possibly is similar to oak in many ways... but i hope most people here are choosing their individual pieces of wood on individual merit rather than name!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 but i hope most people here are choosing their individual pieces of wood on individual merit rather than name!! Yes, it should all start and end with that. Problem is, doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion too well, which in turn means the forum discussions don't go so well. Don't get me started with poplar. I've got various pieces of that, that go from one extreme to the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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