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Very Annoying Problem!


Sami Ghouri
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hey there guys,

I just finished a guitar in the brightest white i could find for a customer. I have never done white guitars before so maybe it sounds stupid but after spraying about 3 coats of poly it looks off white now! Its really important that i get a bright white finish on this one. Is that normal for poly? Or is it that i was a bit heavy? And if its the latter, how do i fix that without ruining the stenciled design that i did?

If poly would normally look yellowish then what should i have used instead? I really have no idea what to tell the guy when i see him! Please help!

Edit: the guitar was sprayed today btw! It hasn't dried yet. Should i just wait for it for a couple of days first?

Edited by Sami Ghouri
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well,

minwax looks yellowish even when its just in the can. i have not used it on a white guitar, but it might have looked like that just because its minwax.

depends on what kind of white you used for the base. was it automotive? i recommend a auto 2 pack clear. dries as crystal clear as you could possible get.

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well,

minwax looks yellowish even when its just in the can. i have not used it on a white guitar, but it might have looked like that just because its minwax.

depends on what kind of white you used for the base. was it automotive? i recommend a auto 2 pack clear. dries as crystal clear as you could possible get.

I'm not familiar with minwax at all, so I'm not really qualified to offer advice on this. But generally, barring a reaction between the basecoat paint and the finish/lacquer, if the paint was bright white before the finish was applied I'd guess it is definitely the finish you've applied that's given the yellow tint. Unfortunately, that's a really hard one to sort too. If it is the finish the only solution I know is to rub it back, repaint and refinish it again using a different lacquer. Here I'm with killemall8, I think 2k lacquers are hard to beat on solid bodied guitars and use them 95% of the time. But of course that doesn't solve your problem of loosing your applied stencil work.

Is the stencil work really detailed, intricate work, or is there any way you could airbrush white in around it without loosing the design and refinish it afterwards? Maybe take the yellow tint back with a white tinted finish coat, but even that would be unlikely to mask an off-white finish and would almost certainly soften the effect of the stencil work below it.

Without a picture it's hard to suggest a less painful option, but I do know how frustrating things like this can be, especially if you're working to a deadline.

Jim

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My understanding is that most solvent based polys tend to have an amber tint. The water based products tend to be more of a bluish tint. The water base may be better on white. You'd have to test to confirm this though.

+1 on the amber tint. I'm doing a tele mutt (as in mistake) and am wet sanding, I can really see it when I wipe the spirits off between dipping the sandpaper. I've never used the water based so I can't speak to that.

Steve

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thanks guys.... anything other than the 2K stuff that i can't find here? i just need a properly clear lacquer.... and i'm gonna have to do this one for free since it's taken me WAY too long to finish this guitar and it's still gonna take forever..... please help.... i just need a clearcoat that's known to be clear (i'll still try and look for 2K, i hope i find it)

thanks again!

EDIT: what about acryllic clear? it doesn't have to be poly! i just need something that looks shiny, dries fast and is in fact "clear"

Edited by Sami Ghouri
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thanks guys.... anything other than the 2K stuff that i can't find here? i just need a properly clear lacquer.... and i'm gonna have to do this one for free since it's taken me WAY too long to finish this guitar and it's still gonna take forever..... please help.... i just need a clearcoat that's known to be clear (i'll still try and look for 2K, i hope i find it)

thanks again!

EDIT: what about acryllic clear? it doesn't have to be poly! i just need something that looks shiny, dries fast and is in fact "clear"

I remember a product I was looking at at an auto paint store made by Dupont. The name went something like sill and door jamb clear. I think it was mentioned on this forum once. If it's tough enough for a sill on a car door it should be tough enough for a guitar.

:D

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I've had lots of experience w/ Minwax poly, its not bad if you have some patience, ie. it takes a while to cure because of the solvent load. And, although I've never cleared coated over white, most everything else (nat. woods, etc) comes out a shade darker. IMRON Polyurethane enamel by DuPont is good, turns into a VERY hard and resistant coating, stuff is used on boat hulls. Also, acrylic lacquer is fairly clear, but can be difficult at times when compatibility is an issue. Basically anything acrylic has UV protection which prevents color fading. Nitro lacquer yellows, checks and underlying paint will fade. I would stop right there, and let the paint you already laid down cure. Then scuff it up and lay down a coat or two of high gloss, IMRON single stage white polyurethane, forget the clearcoat.

Edited by Southpa
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A long shot, and I'm really just talking out my bum, so I wouldn't recommend it unless you have similarly finished scrap you can test on, but when laundering, there's a product called bluing that's often used - as white fabric ages and gets used (you can never get it perfectly clean) it gets a bit of a yellow cast - adding a bit of blue dye to it helps make the white look more white by countering the yellows and greys. Similar concept to what little old ladies do to their white hair. (Least, my grandma did)

I wonder if you can't put another coat or two of clear on, but with a slight bit of blue tint/dye added, to counteract the yellowing of the underlying colors?

I don't know if this would work in this application, but it's the same sort of color theory stuff we used to do in art class and in the theatre lighting department. Sort of the same way that colors can look different under different lights in your house...

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sounds good for experimenting, but i have to be done with this one ASAP! that's my main issue =(

southpa, do u have ANY idea if acryllic is compatible with enamel paint? coz that's what i'm using, ACE white enamel paint. and i'm spraying the stencil with black krylon paint (the one that bonds to plastic. still has the same solvent i guess coz it does smell the same). and most important of all, is acryllic CLEAR enoguh not to change the shade of white?

thanks for putting up with all the questions guys.

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sounds good for experimenting, but i have to be done with this one ASAP! that's my main issue =(

southpa, do u have ANY idea if acryllic is compatible with enamel paint? coz that's what i'm using, ACE white enamel paint. and i'm spraying the stencil with black krylon paint (the one that bonds to plastic. still has the same solvent i guess coz it does smell the same). and most important of all, is acryllic CLEAR enoguh not to change the shade of white?

thanks for putting up with all the questions guys.

If you're going to use the Minwax Polycrylic, their site says it's compatible over latex and oil based paints. It also states that some "ambering" may occur. In my experience the polycrylic flashes over with a blue haze and then comes pretty darn clear. I've only used the satin and really it was lacking in that grain color "pop" that you get from say nitro. I'm not sure if this is true for the other sheens or how it would affect your stenciling. In terms of selecting another product look for phrases like "Crystal Clear," or "Water White," (it's not white). No matter what i bought I'd do test samples on scraps first, you don't want to use a solvent based finish and crackle up the whole guitar.

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thing is, i read all what the can said and it did mention "crystal clear" and i didn't see anything about ambering. however if it's the same blue can (which costs almost double the price of polyu minwax stuff) then i guess i better read my label more carefully. i tested it on an A4 paper and it didn't stain it with yellow (however i believe i did see some very faint blue hint there, but it was gone in seconds) AND THE DARN THING DOESN"T STINK AT ALL!! i dry those guitars in my bathroom and man the polyu almost made me throwup everytime!

so should i just go for the polycrylic? i also noticed that it's much easier to get runs with it (well guessing it's because it's water based) and that it makes a small foamy spot at the beginning..... any ideas regarding that matter?

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