Hashthrashngash Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Hey I'm new here. I was wondering how the resonance of the solid body of the guitar affects the sound (electric). I assume that if the resonance was close to that of the root note of the tuning you use normally, the sound would have that lovely creamy feel, and better harmonics that everyone loves. Oppinons? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Welcome to PG... Opinion: Only if you play in one key! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashthrashngash Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 No I mean that I have a prefered tuning, and seeing as i use that more than others, it would suggest that I should atleast try to achieve something for that sound surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 (edited) so you want one note to sound louder/"better" than the other 11? Edited October 13, 2008 by borge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I think I see what you are getting at, but there really isn't any way to achieve that. It's not like a marimba key where you can shave the back of it until you get the right note. Who knows what you would be left with if you did that to a guitar? Besides, the structure of a guitar and how it responds to the strings vibration is much more complex than a marimba key. If you build it well, it will respond to whatever notes you play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashthrashngash Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I have some software that anylises vibrations and resonance with different materials, and you can alter then shape of the guitar with bumps and dips (like the shape of the schecter Diamond series) to achieve different resonant frequencies. but I guess i'll just stick with a standard shape then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Build whatever shape you like. I guess what I am getting at is that what you are proposing is one of those things that is mostly academic, and if that's what turns you on, cool, could be a fun experiment. But it's entirely likely it will make no discernable difference. I personally have found it best to avoid overthinking these matters. so you want one note to sound louder/"better" than the other 11? What's louder than 11? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 To me, that sounds like the complete opposite of what you should do... why build in a "wolf tone"? I would prefer a guitar with an even response. "Tuning" the whole guitar to one pitch would probably give you a very loud response on certain notes and maybe on other notes related by overtones. On the acoustic I built, the truss rod hummed on lower A's and E's, and I imagine you would get a similar effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Why don't you make 10 louder? A solid material with strings stretched over it affects the string vibration if the material has a degree of flex which interacts with those strings. If anything, the body acts as a filter as the energy of the vibrating string cannot be amplified without external addition of energy. That interaction may alter frequencies by dampening some, and perhaps even altering others which may interact to create a stronger amplitude, but the energy of the string is the same. The pickups only listen to the strings. 10 is loudest, although 6 is near as damnit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I thought he was talking about the resonant frequency of the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foil1more Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 so you want one note to sound louder/"better" than the other 11? What's louder than 11? I'm pretty sure he means the 12 steps in an octave scale. C-C sharp-D-D sharp-E-F-F sharp-G-G sharp-A-A sharp-B I don't know if I would try to make a guitar resonate to a certain frequency. I haven't looked much into wolf notes in solid body guitars, but I know it is something you don't want in an acoustic instrument. Of course, a solid body guitar probably wouldn't resonate enough to make a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthorn Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I don't think anything is louder than 11. I think the world would cave in and then explode if there was. As far as tuning the body, your hardware and cavities are going to alter the structural dynamics of the system so that more than likely, your software won't be able to handle it. It would have to take into account the non-rigid mounting conditions and spatial distribution of added mass. Trying to tune a complex-shaped solid structure is not my preferred way of spending time. My advice, make it pretty, put in some good pickups and crank it to 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 More can be "gained" by ensuring that the nut and saddles are cut well and hardware is coupled well to the rest of the body. The reason i'm so sceptical about using the word "gain" freely is that we're talking about recovering from losses really! A sloppily mounted bridge or dodgy nut will ruin more sound than a weird shape :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Build whatever shape you like. I guess what I am getting at is that what you are proposing is one of those things that is mostly academic, and if that's what turns you on, cool, could be a fun experiment. But it's entirely likely it will make no discernable difference. I personally have found it best to avoid overthinking these matters. so you want one note to sound louder/"better" than the other 11? What's louder than 11? theres 12 notes (in western music) so one loud one would leave 11 quiet ones......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashthrashngash Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 All guitars have a resonance, and pst the software theory is the actual practical carving (I have got my hands on some sound analysis tech that measures "real" resonance from objects), so I would do some whittling after the carving. And if you have a freqcency that interferes with that of the string vibration, then you're in trouble because you get muting and odd harmonics. While it doesn't really matter much, I quite like the challenge of getting a "perfect" sound, I am just wondering if the guitar should resonate at the root note of the normal tuning I use. But thanks for all the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Build whatever shape you like. I guess what I am getting at is that what you are proposing is one of those things that is mostly academic, and if that's what turns you on, cool, could be a fun experiment. But it's entirely likely it will make no discernable difference. I personally have found it best to avoid overthinking these matters. so you want one note to sound louder/"better" than the other 11? What's louder than 11? theres 12 notes (in western music) so one loud one would leave 11 quiet ones......... i thought you where refering to This Is Spinal Tap "You see, most blokes will be playing at 10. You’re on 10, all the way up, all the way up...Where can you go from there? Nowhere. What we do, is if we need that extra push over the cliff...Eleven. One louder." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 I like to refer to it in passing, not directly :-D Nobody expects me to be one louder.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 I like to refer to it in passing, not directly :-D Nobody expects me to be one louder.... that depends on what you're passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Chocolate kisses and brown smiles :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 I am just wondering if the guitar should resonate at the root note of the normal tuning I use. I would think not, because then any "special resonance" you get would only work for that note and other notes related closely in the overtone series. So if you "tuned" the guitar to the low E of standard tuning, you probably wouldn't get any extra resonance on, say, a 1st pos Dmaj chord starting on the D string. Yeah, of course pitches close to D and F# occur in E's overtone series. But the upper harmonics are so weak, I don't think this would affect them the way it might affect, say, the first two octaves of E's and B's. Now, if you tuned the guitar to low E and played a first pos. E chord (or better yet, the open E chord on the 7th fret A string), you'd probably get the extra resonance you seek. The bigger trouble with this kind of thing is that people don't realize what a compromise you have on equal-tempered instruments. Technically only the octaves are in tune, which means that when you play that basic D chord, the F# on the thin E string is quite sharp of the F# that is ringing several octaves higher in your open D string. So if this is going to be a comprehensive endeavor, you may need to build a guitar specifically for one key, then fret the guitar in such a way that it will play all notes in that key perfectly in tune. Make sure you never try to play it in another key, because that will sound bad. Better yet, remove the possibility by leaving blank fingerboard in place of inappropriate fret/string combinations. Build twelve such guitars, one for each half-step up the chromatic scale, and you'll be in business! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Hash, I would be interested in the sofware you're using - what it is? Sounds like the software version of Chladni patterns. Every solid object has a characteristic resonant frequency - it is simply the strongest freq that comes across when you bonk on the object. It may not be all that strong, but it WILL be there, and it has to do with the size of the object and (to a lesser degree) its density. Hash, most folks who build acoustic guitars purposely try to tune the body AWAY from the keys that they will play in, so that they can avoid these kinds of resonances. Resonances in solid body instruments will be less strong than in acoustic instruments, but they will be there - a bass player I play with regularly has a Ken Smith with a really really strong C# - sure enough, if you hold the bass by the head and bonk it (with the strings muted), C# shows up on his tuner. (OMG!! What is happening to Bill the Cat?? He's losing pixels!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avdekan Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 No I mean that I have a prefered tuning, and seeing as i use that more than others, it would suggest that I should atleast try to achieve something for that sound surely? you can have a set of resonating sympathetic strings with their own pickup that you can blend into the signal. that way you can change the scale/root notes they respond to. you could do just the one sympathetic string for the one note but I thing it would look kind of stupid on a guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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