Newbeeguitarmod Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 (edited) Okay, I've been kinda modifying a Dean Vendetta XM. Not the most elaborate of guitars! In fact its "ELCHEEPO"! to say the least. I bought the guitar mainly to have a backup for whatever reason might arise. Thing is... I wanted to replace the bridge with a Tune-o-matic roller style to possibly help with sustain and beef up the looks a little. So, I got on to Ebay and found the bridge I wanted for a fair price and bought it. The seller has a full return policy. I asked him if there were any issues with replacing a TonePros bridge (thats what is was as far as I could tell) with a Tune-o-matic. He told me " he has sold several of them to customers with the same situation and nobody has complained or retuned the item...but no one has told him wether or not it was a direct fit". This was all before I signed up for this forum otherwise I would have asked someone here! I received the bridge today and attempted to slap it on the guitar...that didnt go so well. Turns out that I discoverd something that I'm thinking shouldn't be! The two posts holes (in the body) for most of the bridges I've seen have been both the same size. This bridge from the Dean has two seperate sizes! What up with that? Seems like one post is a finer, smaller thread than the other. The pole spaceing for both brdges seems to be the same, its just the thread sizes are different. Needless to say I did get the Tune-o-matic on the guitar with a little messing around. I was just wondering if I ordered the wrong type of bridge? or, if Dean just screwed up and put the wrong post sizes in to compensate for lack of craftmenship? It really seems to me that these guitars were just the "spare parts" laying around the shop floor that they wanted to get rid of...so they slap a neck on a "not so to spec" body and throw some strings on it and sell it for $80 bucks! (this is why I bought it..can't beat that price...but I guess its totally true...you get what you pay for!) Any thoughts??????? Edited October 21, 2008 by Newbeeguitarmod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Well, here's a thought...what are you asking? Are you saying there was a Tone Pro$ bridge on there that you're replacing with a TOM-style roller bridge? (Seems unlikely). Or are you saying you're putting a Tone Pro$ bridge on an $80 guitar? Regardless, didn't the new bridge come with it's own inserts? Why not use those? Then you won't have an issues with the threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbeeguitarmod Posted October 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Well, here's a thought...what are you asking? Are you saying there was a Tone Pro$ bridge on there that you're replacing with a TOM-style roller bridge? (Seems unlikely). Or are you saying you're putting a Tone Pro$ bridge on an $80 guitar? Regardless, didn't the new bridge come with it's own inserts? Why not use those? Then you won't have an issues with the threads. Yes, I guess I wasnt too clear on that. I installed a tune-o-matic to replace a tonepros. And I suppose I could put in the inserts but I'm thinking the holes are just a fraction off so it wouldn't matter regardless as they would still be a bit off. I'm just curious to know if this set-up is common or did Dean muss it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Yes, I guess I wasnt too clear on that. I installed a tune-o-matic to replace a tonepros. And I suppose I could put in the inserts but I'm thinking the holes are just a fraction off so it wouldn't matter regardless as they would still be a bit off. I'm just curious to know if this set-up is common or did Dean muss it up? I'm still not following you. From the specs I've seen, the guitar didn't have a Tonepros bridge on it -- that would cost more than the rest of the guitar -- but was outfitted with a tuneamatic style bridge. So you're replacing that with a roller bridge, I'm guessing. At any rate, "Dean" didn't mess anything up, it's the sweatshop in China that built the that might have messed up. And anyway, not all bridges are the exact same size. But you're saying you were able to mount the new bridge, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 I'm with Mick on this one. There's no way there was a Tonepros bridge on a $80 guitar. I won't say it didn't LOOK like one, but it just isn't possible. But let's not belabor the point. The new bridge didn't line up on the old posts. I'm with Mick on this one too. Why didn't you try the posts that came with it? OR... did you try those and THEY didn't line up with the bridge when they were put into the old holes? If the holes aren't lining up with the new bridge, then plug the old ones and re-drill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdog Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 I think what he's saying is that the two posts were of different size/thread. Tonepros or not. And that would indeed be weird. Tonepros or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshvegas Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 thats how I read it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 why do you want a roller on it its just a pretty straight forward string though i doupt that your gonna gain any thing i think most people use a roller with a bigsby so i don't get it are you trying to use the inserts that came with the cheapie factory tom? any way just yank the inserts out and toss the new ones in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbeeguitarmod Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I think what he's saying is that the two posts were of different size/thread. Tonepros or not. And that would indeed be weird. Tonepros or not. Yes, this is what I was getting at. I just thought it was weird that the threads were different. I've got the bridge on the guitar without too much problem. I don't really think I'm going to put in the supplied inserts as that its fitting "okay". And the reasoning behind a roller was just to try and help with sustain. the body is made of Paulowinia wood and its very light. The neck is heavier than the body so it droops when you strap it up. I just thought that if I could help the sustain at all the roller bridge might help. Even if I only help it out a bit with the roller its worth it for me. I mean the bridge only cost me 12$ so I feel its worth a little extra expense to help out the guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbeeguitarmod Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I'm with Mick on this one. There's no way there was a Tonepros bridge on a $80 guitar. I won't say it didn't LOOK like one, but it just isn't possible. But let's not belabor the point. The new bridge didn't line up on the old posts. I'm with Mick on this one too. Why didn't you try the posts that came with it? OR... did you try those and THEY didn't line up with the bridge when they were put into the old holes? If the holes aren't lining up with the new bridge, then plug the old ones and re-drill. It's more than possible that it wasnt a tonepros...I agree that it may have just looked like one. Who knows? But, even if it were a tune-o-matic the new roller is a tune-o-matic and both bridges have the same pole spacing. My whole issue was to not have to plug the current holes and re-drill. That would force me to have to refinish the whole body and I don't have the time or the tools or a shop to do that type of work. I just wanted to "beef-up" an $80 P.O.S. !! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 What is your reasoning behind thinking that a roller bridge will increase the sustain? I doubt you'll notice any difference, unless it is real meatal like brass or aluminum, but for $12 I am guessing it is probably cheap white metal like the original bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbeeguitarmod Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 What is your reasoning behind thinking that a roller bridge will increase the sustain? I doubt you'll notice any difference, unless it is real meatal like brass or aluminum, but for $12 I am guessing it is probably cheap white metal like the original bridge. That was the selling point of the bridge. It and many others use the same idea to help sell I guess. The idea is that the rollers are more of a smooth breaking point for the string rather than a pointed normal saddle...this "supposedly" helps the string vibrate a little better and in turn helps the note ring a bit longer....thus sustain. And it will save from breaking a lot of strings...they aren't string saver saddles....but I'll take what I can get. The point is: it was cheap for a cheap guitar...and if it helps sustain then great! if not...Oh well! No big loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdog Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 So now you can probably tell us: Did it help with the sustain at all ?? I'm curious because I think it could actually be the other way around... A roller bridge will definitely help with the return to pitch on a tremolo equipped guitar. But for a fixed through-body design the extra moving parts on each roller saddle could actually decrease your sustain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbeeguitarmod Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 So now you can probably tell us: Did it help with the sustain at all ?? I'm curious because I think it could actually be the other way around... A roller bridge will definitely help with the return to pitch on a tremolo equipped guitar. But for a fixed through-body design the extra moving parts on each roller saddle could actually decrease your sustain. I'll let you know as soon as I get the thing back together...I'm doing other mods to it and its not stringed up yet. This all started by having to replace the nut. After 2 weeks of having the guitar ...the plastic nut cracked and broke in 2 peices. I replaced that with an Earvana nut. Then I decided to go a bit further and ordered some wood pickuprings from John Gilford because the rings were cheap plastic and starting to crack. So, from there I decided to try out the roller nut and see what all the hype was about. Thing is, I'm still waiting on the rings from Gilford so I can string it up and play it. If it turns out that I do lose sustain from the roller then I still have the old bridge I could put back on. This is one of the main reasons I didn't want to do any drilling or major body modifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 PLEASE DON"T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY...... When I started playing, I bought a cheap Memphis guitar. (FWIW: Memphis was a low-grade brand made by Westone.) I wanted to put a Chandler neck on it, some good hardware, and some DiMArzip pups in it. The dude at my guitar store asked me straight-up: Why are you trying to polish a turd? You'd be MUCH better off putting that money into a better instrument than trying to make that one good. Take it for what it is, don't expect too much out of it, and upgrade later. So I'll ask you the same thing: Why are you trying to polish a turd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 That was the selling point of the bridge. Lemme guess...guitarfetish? Anyway, I put a roller bridge (guitarfetish) on one of my guitar (because I also installed a Bigsby) but hated the bridge because of the way the rollers rattled. Yours might not be so loose though. And really, anytime someone's trying to sell you a guitar part, you'll find that said part will always 'increase sustain', "enhance tone", make you a better player and otherwise create world peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 FWIW: In my experience, there are two things that significantly effect sustain - mass and rigidity. Everything else is sales rhetoric or personal playing style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I'm still trying to figure out why everyone needs more sustain. Is there some genre of music I'm missing, where people are playing four notes in a two minute song? I've very rarely played a guitar and thought, "gee, this guitar needs more sustain". I find with an electric, sustain is more a function of playing technique, and in some instances, how the guitar interacts with the amp. If I want a 30 second long note, I'll play a keyboard. I also find it hilarious that some of the people I hear complain about lack of sustain the most are metal head kids, who play so many damn notes per second, there's no room for sustain to matter. I'm not sure they even know what the word means. (This is not meant as an aside against the original poster [whose musical tastes I don't know] or metal heads on this forum, just a few individuals I know in real life, whom I often find amusing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 PLEASE DON"T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY...... When I started playing, I bought a cheap Memphis guitar. (FWIW: Memphis was a low-grade brand made by Westone.) I wanted to put a Chandler neck on it, some good hardware, and some DiMArzip pups in it. The dude at my guitar store asked me straight-up: Why are you trying to polish a turd? You'd be MUCH better off putting that money into a better instrument than trying to make that one good. Take it for what it is, don't expect too much out of it, and upgrade later. So I'll ask you the same thing: Why are you trying to polish a turd? i don't know i have the same turd an i am in the process of polishing it's basicaly my first project i was just gonna start with a kit but the dean was about 50 buck cheaper than a saga kit and this way i get a befor and after btw i kinda liked that cheap guitar befor i tore it down i was more likely to pick it up than my schecter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 i hope so right now its sitting in a buddy of mines shop waiting for paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbeeguitarmod Posted October 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) PLEASE DON"T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY...... When I started playing, I bought a cheap Memphis guitar. (FWIW: Memphis was a low-grade brand made by Westone.) I wanted to put a Chandler neck on it, some good hardware, and some DiMArzip pups in it. The dude at my guitar store asked me straight-up: Why are you trying to polish a turd? You'd be MUCH better off putting that money into a better instrument than trying to make that one good. Take it for what it is, don't expect too much out of it, and upgrade later. So I'll ask you the same thing: Why are you trying to polish a turd? i don't know i have the same turd an i am in the process of polishing it's basicaly my first project i was just gonna start with a kit but the dean was about 50 buck cheaper than a saga kit and this way i get a befor and after btw i kinda liked that cheap guitar befor i tore it down i was more likely to pick it up than my schecter Wow!...this thread has gotten way too "in debth" for me! lol....Yes, I may be polishing a turd...but if you read the original post...this is only a backup guitar used for emergencies when or if something may happen to my ESP. The ESP is the real project guitar as far as upgrading goes. The Dean was just in need of some dire help. And like the above message...something to toy with and not worry about mistakes or mishappenings. I'm not looking at reverse engineering the Dean. I have other plans for a true project guitar in the future. The Dean is just one of many guitars I plan to have and I desperatly needed a backup incase anything did happen to my ESP. But whats the sense in having a guitar that you can't even play because of crappy materials and workmenship? I couldn't play the Dean after the first 2 weeks I had it because the nut had cracked...so its sat on my wall for about 6 months now ...and still counting! Edited October 23, 2008 by Newbeeguitarmod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 im just kinda wondering the reasoning behind the roller bridge i could think of many other places your money could have gone pickups and tuners spring to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhollowman Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 I say go for it! Turd polishing is fun! It's all good learning experience, and develops skills which you can later use when you're handling "better" instruments - better to screw up a turd eh? But I also agree with Tim37's comment above. These are all things that come with experience I guess, and you have to start somewhere! DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 i don't know i have the same turd an i am in the process of polishing it's basicaly my first project i was just gonna start with a kit but the dean was about 50 buck cheaper than a saga kit and this way i get a befor and after The Dean was just in need of some dire help. And like the above message...something to toy with and not worry about mistakes or mishappenings. I'm not looking at reverse engineering the Dean. I have other plans for a true project guitar in the future. OK. From THOSE perspectives, it makes sense. For some reason, I had the impression that you were wanting to hot-rod a junker. If you're doing it for a learning experience, then I have NO issues whatsoever. Tim's idea about experimenting with a Vendetta instead of a Saga kit is a decent idea as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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