The Plywood Discussion

[kpcrash]

If my years of laundry experience counts (from bakeries) it has great staying power on organic and inorganic surfaces (cotton/nylon). I have several aprons that are quite colorful, even after using bleach. Of course red is the worst. I'll do some more research to see what's out there compared with what I'm experiencing locally.

[psw]

cool...what happened with the prototype carving...also...with dying...have you considered the effects of glue and glue absorption...are you considering dying veneers before gluing up...anyway...just curious...carry on...

pete

+1 on food dye, not sure about UV fastness but on anything you don't want it it has remarkable fastness...

[kpcrash]

I had to pause the carving to prepare (read: help wife) for Christmas. My press however is inside, so the lam is slowly coming together, layer by layer. As for UV, I can say that display cakes I have decorated will fade in sunlight in a period of months if not protected - sprayed with any kind of UV protection negates that effect. There is a cake (I didn't decorate it) in the lobby of a Williamsburg, VA government office that has been there since the mid-90's with no color loss other than the inevitable absorption by sugar.

I've got a few colored pieces in the press right now to see what happens with gluing. I'm use a cold press veneer glue that is supposed to limit bleedthrough. I've used it on a couple of smaller projects and so far... so good.

[nuge67]

of all the threads on this forum, I find this one the most interesting. I never thought of dyeing the laminates prior to laminating. I'm very interested in seeing your results.

I've got a few plywood bodys going myself. Next month should bring more progress.

[WezV]

food dye??? aint it funny how ideas always come around again

[fryovanni]

food dye??? aint it funny how ideas always come around again

Agreed, I will leave it at that.

[Rockhorst]

To add something to the discussion on other materials than wood:

Over a year ago I purchased a bass guitar. The competition was between a standard Fender Jazzbass and an Ibanez Ergodyne EDB600. I bought the last one (judged by comparing the sound of the too). It's quite heavy and I associated it with wood. I discovered a week later that it's made out of Luthite, whatever that may be it's synthetic. So there I was, the guy always saying "guitars should be made out of wood" buying a 'plastic' bass LOL. I use it for demo recording mostly and it suits me fine. (Although with basses, the Jazz and Precision are such icons in their world, I dare say even more than a strat or LP, so in that respect, maybe a J or P would've been better. I think I just ran into a mediocre one at that shop).

[kpcrash]

Luthite is the equivalent of MDF

It's basically wood and acrylic epoxy combined into a moldable substance. Ergodyne's are (in)famous for this. I should have some new picks up later tonight of belly carve and neck part 1.

[ae3]

You why plywood rocks?

Because it's dirt cheap!

I have nothing technical to add but yeah, gotta love the price.

[Kenny]

KP ive been following this thread, and never had anything to contribute until now...

GET THOSE DARN PICS UP ALREADY WILLYEA?

hehe, no pressure though, just all us folks waiting to see how it looks!

[kpcrash]

I know! I'm sorry - got wrapped up a bit on holidays/work. I've already started cutting the neck, pics when I get home from this trip.

[Mattia]

You why plywood rocks?

Because it's dirt cheap!

I have nothing technical to add but yeah, gotta love the price.

...unless you're recycling scrap, I can get solid wood (basswood, ash, african mahogany) for less per board foot, in better quality, than ply. Don't know about you.

[Kenny]

i did a few searches and came up with three suppliers of colored laminations however 1 of them caters mostly to gunstock sized blanks

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Tu...ed_Blanks?Args=

http://www.rifle-stocks.com/laminated_blanks.htm

http://www.rutply.com/products/index.html

just thought i would throw it out there

if i were curious about making my own laminations how would one impregnate epoxy into the wood..since this seems to be the commonly accepted method of doing it...

[kpcrash]

Ok, ok, I know it's been a while - between holidays, work and making plywood I haven't had a ton of time to work on the prototype, but here she is as things stand today. The neck is still in rough shape, but coming together. I made a lam of maple, walnut veneer and douglas fir. Hopefully, sometime this week, I can finish carving/shaping the neck. The neck lam worked out rather well as I was trying to keep some of the lines of the ply in the body going all the way back. Mind you, these shots were taken straight out of the shop and nothing was wiped down beyond a dry rag.

[kpcrash]

Back agian! This damned work thing is really getting in the way! Here are a couple of update pics carrying on the plywood prototype. BTW, the make-your-own plywood is under construction.... 3 layers at a time, each layer about 1/42". I plan to make a core out of some scrap mahogany I have that's about 3/8" thick.

The pickups are angled slightly (1.2 degrees) so my fingers don't hit them

Otherwise, neck is ready to go for fretting, which I still think will be "fretless" with veneer filler on the slots just to keep with the plywood theme.

[kpcrash]

So........ maybe it's time for me to finally post some completed pics since it's been quite a while and I've actually played this bass quite a bit

Simple oiled finish. Was working on making some lam, but seem to have an issue with really dry layers. Had it all glued up and it sort of "splintered" when cutting, so... back to the drawing board on that one. Otherwise, nice to finally be able to get back in the groove....

[Mors Phagist]

I found some Mahogony plywood and Solid mahogony siding/flooring. Im really wondering if I can use any of this.

If I were to cut the siding/flooring into laminatable pieces, and get an area large enough for a body, the thickness would be 1/8th inch for that square, and I would have roughly 3 more of those.

So from maybe 3 dozen pieces of wood, I would have a 3/8th inch piece of laminated Mahogony, large enough for a body.

Now, if all that was done, what could I do with 3/8ths of Mahogony? "Double" top it, and use it as a Core between two other cuts? Any ideas here?

[kpcrash]

I might suggest using it as a core unless it's strikingly beautiful in some manner. 1/8" might not make a big difference - but who knows??? Then again 3/8" might make a nice top - but probably painted since it's sort of "piecemeal".

[Mors Phagist]

If anything, Ive got thicker mahogony that I could laminate on. 1 1/2 + 3/8ths makes a decent thickness.

[kpcrash]

Very true - sorry if I misunderstood. Seemed like you only a max. of 3/8" mahogany. I'll be starting soon on a new one that... right now... looks like it's going to have a bit of maple on top - waiting to see what other projects I can wrap up to make the mid/back

[westhemann]

I make most of my guitars 1 1/2" thick total...one is 1 3/8"

There is plywood and then there is plywood.The pine cheap stuff you get from home depot and such is not good for anything IMO.The good stuff(from birch,maple,etc)which is mostly knot free and much higher quality...well that stuff is at least not a complete waste of time.

[Mors Phagist]

Just sliced up all the flooring into usable pieces. I think I should have enough for a sheet 3/4ths inch.

Also, I found more than enough mahogony for a full body. three pieces, when laminated, will become a single piece of 1 1/2". It pays to dig around a bit.

[Prostheta]

Interesting thread with good research and actual results. That makes a change :-)

On a slightly different but related note - my current obsession is with blockboard, specifically to make my own Red Specials. Whilst not strictly plywood as per the definitions on the first page, it does possess many of the same properties; a composite core with two facings, also composite in many cases. This is as far as I understand it anyway.

So taking into consideration the issues with crap being thrown into imported plys, voids and bad construction, I have decided to produce my own blockboard for my project. Now, how different is producing blockboard to our more familiar laminating/veneering procedures? The glues differ definitely, although I presume this is more down to the final products varied and more demanding applications.

I am proposing making a butcher-block chopping-board style core of around 12mm square lengths of softwood (Aspen, Pine, etc. depending on available crap) faced either side with 3mm Birch ply aiming for 18mm overall thickness. This is consistent with the project specs.

Given that I will be using familiar wood glues and clamping techniques (plus I may consider building a vacuum press for the veneer) would the qualities of the self-made blockboard differ hugely from the commercially produced equivalent?

I suspect that in my application it wouldn't, as the blockboard was more to create the shape of the RS - not the core woods central to the tonal character.

[RestorationAD]

Interesting thread with good research and actual results. That makes a change :-)

On a slightly different but related note - my current obsession is with blockboard, specifically to make my own Red Specials. Whilst not strictly plywood as per the definitions on the first page, it does possess many of the same properties; a composite core with two facings, also composite in many cases. This is as far as I understand it anyway.

So taking into consideration the issues with crap being thrown into imported plys, voids and bad construction, I have decided to produce my own blockboard for my project. Now, how different is producing blockboard to our more familiar laminating/veneering procedures? The glues differ definitely, although I presume this is more down to the final products varied and more demanding applications.

I am proposing making a butcher-block chopping-board style core of around 12mm square lengths of softwood (Aspen, Pine, etc. depending on available crap) faced either side with 3mm Birch ply aiming for 18mm overall thickness. This is consistent with the project specs.

Given that I will be using familiar wood glues and clamping techniques (plus I may consider building a vacuum press for the veneer) would the qualities of the self-made blockboard differ hugely from the commercially produced equivalent?

I suspect that in my application it wouldn't, as the blockboard was more to create the shape of the RS - not the core woods central to the tonal character.

I am not sure what holds a blackboard together but if it is similar to the US version (cutting board ... probably made in china) I wouldn't trust the glue holding them together. I would make my own using titebond.

[Prostheta]

Well, it's an attempt to duplicate a material that was manufactured quite possibly a long time before 1963 (when the RS was completed). The blockboard would most likely have been manufactured in the UK with relatively low-tech behind it. Probably not far off what we're capable of! Chances are the glue was some urea-formaldehyde crap though, so yeah....Titebond methinks! Wouldn't go to those lengths of "accuracy".

Modern commercial blockboard is probably not very consistent or even dimensionally stable.