East Indian Rosewood Neck

[dpm99]

I came across a pretty nice piece of neck wood today. It's an old and dry piece of East Indian Rosewood with a pretty straight grain. Here:

The grain isn't perfectly straight down the neck, but it's close, as you can see from the picture. And that's about as close to quartersawn as it gets, up and down. I'm debating whether I should just leave it as a one piece neck or if I should rip it and make a laminate neck. I think it would be cool to put a 1/4" strip of teak right down the middle. Since both are oily woods, the neck wouldn't require a finish. My fear is that the glue might not hold. From a structural standpoint, what do you think would be safer here? Leave it as is, or do a laminate neck?

Thanks,

-Dave

[kpcrash]

I might be somewhat pro-lam, but I say leave it. That should be quite a stable piece of wood just as it is. The teak may look nice, but why take that chance?

[WezV]

leave it as it is! 1 piece rosewood necks feel and look awesome

[Blackdog]

I'd say leave it like that.

One piece EIRW necks are amazing !!!

[Bmth Builder]

Hey would the oily wood actually cause the lams not to glue properly?

Edited December 14, 2008 by Neil Beith

[dpm99]

Hey would the oily wood actually cause the lams not to glue properly?

Some people have reported problems with that stuff, but boat builders use teak all the time, and if the glue didn't hold, the boat would fall apart. From what I've read, it helps if you wipe it with acetone before you glue it.

WezV, those pictures you put up were the look I was going for with the teak.

All you guys with rosewood necks have straighter grain than me too. Meh. I'm still torn.

[WezV]

WezV, those pictures you put up were the look I was going for with the teak.

it was my first time doing a 1-piece fender style neck... just a fairly standard skunk stripe construction to cover the truss rod... it is not a neck lam!

[kpcrash]

boat builders use teak all the time,

They also use biscuit jointery - not sure about doing that in a neck. Don't see any immediate problem - just not sure it's common.

[Six String Theory]

So is it safe to leave a rosewood neck unfinished? Wouldn't it let moisture in and warp?

[dpm99]

WezV - Yeah, I knew that. It still looks cool though.

Ok, you guys are talking me into it. You make good points, and I know you guys know what you're talking about. Thanks for trying to talk sense into me.

Six String Theory - Yeah, that's what's great about rosewood necks. They're naturally oily, so the finish comes from the inside out. It's the same as with fingerboards. You wouldn't typically finish a rosewood or ebony fingerboard, because they're naturally oily, but you do finish a maple fingerboard.

[Six String Theory]

Hey, thanks! That's good to know for my upcoming build.

[dpm99]

On the same subject then, do you think it's a mistake to scarf the headstock?

[Hector]

On the same subject then, do you think it's a mistake to scarf the headstock?

not at all!

do it!

[MiKro]

as far as oily woods, such as Cocobolo, EIR, teak, also some cedars, Ect... The easiest way to help insure a good glueup is to use acetone to the surfaces just before adding the glue. This will remove the surface oils and to some respect (depending on species) just below surface to allow a good bond with PVA(titebond) type glues, CA, and epoxies. Just an FYI

MK

[j. pierce]

If you want to deal with the mess of epoxy, Smith and Company makes an epoxy ("All Wood Epoxy" was one of the product names, although they have other similar products as well now, I believe) that does a bang up job of gluing oily woods. LMI carries it. I guess it's actually formulated for working on oily woods.

I've only heard good things about it, and only had good experience with it. I've used it for a long while now for gluing oily woods, (particularly in fretboards) and had better luck than I've had with straight up wood glues, but I also don't have a huge amount of experience to draw from, either. But if you don't mind the hassle inherent in working with epoxies, it seems to be pretty keen for those sorts of jobs.

[dpm99]

If you want to deal with the mess of epoxy, Smith and Company makes an epoxy ("All Wood Epoxy" was one of the product names, although they have other similar products as well now, I believe) that does a bang up job of gluing oily woods. LMI carries it. I guess it's actually formulated for working on oily woods.

I've only heard good things about it, and only had good experience with it. I've used it for a long while now for gluing oily woods, (particularly in fretboards) and had better luck than I've had with straight up wood glues, but I also don't have a huge amount of experience to draw from, either. But if you don't mind the hassle inherent in working with epoxies, it seems to be pretty keen for those sorts of jobs.

Wow, that looks like a great product for this stuff. And just as I was resolving myself to leave it as a one piece neck. Well, I don't have to decide immediately.

[Geo]

If you don't like the grain going at an angle to the centerline, just rip it down the middle, flip one piece on its axis and reglue, i.e. with the grain now converging towards the headstock.

[dugg]

I would laminate, or at least do the middle rip that Geo suggests. A single piece of wood is nice, but a multi-lam is even nicer. I think choice of glue is very important. My only choice other than the obvious best choice; hot hide glue, would be a powdered formaldehyde resin glue. I'd stay away from titebonds and epoxies like the plague. A few years ago, I did some experiments with edge gluing pieces of quarter sawn spruce into little mini soundboards with different glues. While you might not be able to easily hear the differences between glues used to laminate a neck, you can easily hear differences when you glue up soundboards. Only HHG and FRG glues sounded like a single piece of spruce. All other glues deaden the tone quite a bit. Titebond is very dead sounding. It's true that we're talking about laminating necks, not soundboards, but I think we want to make all structural parts as 'live' as possible, and even if it can't be heard easily, the knowledge of it is enough to make me choose the better sounding glue.

[dpm99]

Dugg,

In making those recommendations, are you taking into consideration how oily the wood is? How do you feel about those glues for rosewood and teak?

-Dave