1st Attempt At A Burst Finish

[Hydrogeoman]

I am currently working on an LP style guitar for my daughter. I understand how burst finishes can be done, but this color scheme is what I am after and I am not sure what would be the best way to proceed. The top is a nice light colored curly maple. I am worried the transition from the purple to the reddish hue will be some weird color. I am sure it will take some experimenting, but any advice on color selection, blending, sequence, etc., would be appreciated!

Cheers - Greg

[RobSm]

See David Myka's tute in the reference section.

I've done it twice with good results. I've never tried the spray can over a template method because the dyeing techniques a la Myka & Roger Siminoff are straight forward & fun.

[Hydrogeoman]

See David Myka's tute in the reference section.

I've done it twice with good results. I've never tried the spray can over a template method because the dyeing techniques a la Myka & Roger Siminoff are straight forward & fun.

fanlee - I have read David's tutorial and I also have the Siminoff book. I guess my real question is how do you best obtain the color combinations in the picture. When I use a color wheel determine the resulting color combinations I come up with the following: lay down the yellow 1st, then red. it looks like you have to shoot A LOT of red to get back to a very red color (yellow + red = orange). Then if you shoot blue over the red you will get the violet edge.

I may be making this more complicated than need be, but another option, I guess, would be 1st laying down the yellow then mix a batch of clear lacquer with varying amounts blue toner and red toner to get the proper shade of purple and shoot the burst in this manner. Guess I will experiment when it warms up some (it was -20 F here this week!).

Any and all suggestions are welcomed finishers!

[kpcrash]

Not that I am the super expert on this, but hypothetically if someone brought me this body and a picture, I would attack it as such.

1. Pore fill with ZPoxy or System 3 as it's going to darken the maple just a bit. This makes the middle "clear".

2. Airbrush a nice thin layer or two of red with a wide spray pattern

3. Airbrush 1-2 layers of dark blue on a 1" pattern around the edges and completely covering the horns

4. Continue applying clear per finish choice.

Bursting is extremely easy with a small airbrush as you have a lot of control over the shape of the burst (great for multi-color bursts). This could also be done by rubbing the colored finish - but this is a lot more work IMHO.

[syxxstring]

My companies new "paint guy" is House Of Kolor's former tech leader. He wrote the HOK tech sheets. I will be doing my bodies with artwork and he will do most of the soild color, bursts, etc. We're still sketching out the details.

Talking to him about doing some of this kind of stuff, here's how he would approach it, I believe.

Clear the body with HOK UFC35, your basic clear, untill you have enough built up to level sand. Over maple probably 2 or 3 sessions. Level sand, don't polish wax or anything else.

Next would be color coats:

Maybe 1 coat with SG100 (intercoat clear, required for the HOK Kandy Koncentrates) mixed with a touch of Pagan Gold, if your center isn't dark enough for your tastes. I'd probably leave it.

Then mix sg100 with either magenta or violet. Depending on which color suits your taste better. I'd go magenta based on that picture. Fade your first coat evenly for the whole distance you want color. (oops forgot a K color) I'd choose a small HVLP gun like my LPH-80, or the Kustom TH Airbrush. A regular airbrush has about a 2 inch fan, for even coverage Kandies require about a 50% overlap. I have the equipment to do it more effiecently so I would.

Then keep fading more burst color until you have the depth and pattern you like. Maybe for the final pass on the edge just a touch of BC25(black) added to the mix to give it a little extra dark. It won't kill the kandy effect but will give you a "black" kandy.

Then UFC35 clear 2 sessions or more depending on your gun skills, cut buff and polish. If you tape off the Faux binding and base coat the back black like they have you might need another session to make sure your tape lines are burried.

Don't confuse this with the same tonal and film build as factory polyesters.

This is show car quality Polyurethane, the total film build in mils would be the same or less than most Nitro finishes. Just with out the fading, cracking, wait time and all that of Nitro. For candy finishes you gain a huge depth and shine and a ton more durability and UV resistance. Nitro has it's place, maybe, but a custom quality uro isn't going to be a disadvantage over it.

[Hydrogeoman]

syxxstring - thanks for the brief tutorial. That is very helpful! I have never sprayed anything but nitro, but I am intrigued by the idea of trying the HOK poly. I have a CAT mini HVLP gun with 3 different tip sizes (not very happy with it BTW - kicking myself for not going with a SATA or other high end gun, but that is another story) so that would probably suffice for applying the finish. In terms of final finishing effort, i.e., wet sanding and buffing, how does the HOK poly compare to nitro? Can you suggest any good suppliers of the HOK finishes to check out? Thanks again.

[syxxstring]

I get most everything from Coast Airbrush.

I've never shot nitro, I've never liked it on the guitar's I've owned using it as a finish.

The CAT gun is probably an Astro or one of the other lower end guns rebagged. I really like my Iwata LPH-80 and Devilbiss SRI-W, I have a Sata 3000 that is taking some getting used to being a big gun it flows a little better than the others but puts out tons of paint making it difficult.

Anyways your CAT gun is fine if you dial it in. Brian Lynch wrote a Rod & Custom article a few months back that lays out how to adjust a gun properly, it shouldn't really matter what your shooting as far as tuning the gun methodology.

The big difference you'll find with most 2k uro's is that you have much smaller recoat windows and much shorter cure times. HOK is ready to buff in 24 hours if you have too.

Also they are not reactive finishes, meaning once cured the original solvents wont effect them. It's a big bonus to me having seen many nitro finishes damaged by straps, stands, etc... The modern automotive paints also maintain great elasticity which is why they don't check etc...

[Hydrogeoman]

Thanks again for the info. My CAT gun worked great for a while but got "leaky" in a short period of time. I bought a rebuild kit for it and it fixed one of the leaks for only about 4 spraying sessions. But the biggest problem is the gun drips from the nozzle tip. Only a new needle will fix that. The needle had become deformed just from the pressure of the spring pushing it into the nozzle when the gun is "at rest.". The needles on these things must be very soft as it has done this to all 3 needles that came with the gun. Needless to say I was pissed and expected more from $150 gun.

My $10 Harbor Freight gun has held up better than the CAT. The HF gun does not produce as good of spray pattern as the CAT but at least I can spray bodies horizontal and not have to worry about paint dripping on to the guitar. Sorry for the off topic rant -

I will check out the Iwata. I want to stay with a mini HVLP rather than a "big boy" gun for the very reason you stated.

[erikbojerik]

The questions you're asking I think are really difficult to answer if you haven't tried to shoot that color combo - I think you just need to do a lot of testing on scrap first, then make sure you have a good base on the guitar in case you need to sand back to it at any point.

I also don't see why you couldn't do this with nitro - HOK poly is great stuff, but if you're already comfortable shooting nitro and haven't shot poly before, I would stick with nitro.

[guitar2005]

This is the best method and explanation I've seen so far. I believe that its the same method that David Myka uses.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Ski...e.aspx?id=30182

[Maiden69]

This is the best method and explanation I've seen so far. I believe that its the same method that David Myka uses.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Ski...e.aspx?id=30182

It is very close to what Myka does. But the one on the picture above is sprayed. You can clearly tell by the look of the grain under the "magenta-blue" burst. I don't think I would try to attain the same finish using red. Unless you are one awesome candie color painter. A magenta light coat followed by a large fan blue with a small darker blue on the edges should give you the same finish. Also remember to seal the top first. On that one it would be a good idea to sand the top to 800, it will bring the grain out more, if you were staining it 320 would be more than enough.

[Hydrogeoman]

Thanks for all the good input guys. I think for this effort, I will probably go with what I know best - nitro. I will definately be shooting a nice thick base "just in case." Scrap pieces will be getting a good workout before any finish hits the real deal. Now if I only had a booth with heat! Maybe play with some waterbased dyes until temps warm up around here.

Cheers GPP

[syxxstring]

Also check out the Devilbiss Sri-W it's also one of my favorite guns.

[egdeltar]

I think this can be easily achieved by mixing colortone vintage amber with a few drops of cherry red, and I mean just barely enough to give it a SMALL red tint in with a 90/10 nitro. spray that, mix up a bit of blue and red until you get the purple you want and burst that on. working very so gently from the out side in. Of course have a good base of about 10 cotes before.....those cheap guns from harbor freight are perfect. best thing is once they crap out you can just toss them and go buy another without feeling bad. Test it on some scrap first, I think you will find its a lot easier than you are building it up to be. It just takes patience.

[ToddW]

Clear the body with HOK UFC35, your basic clear, untill you have enough built up to level sand. Over maple probably 2 or 3 sessions. Level sand, don't polish wax or anything else.

Next would be color coats:

Maybe 1 coat with SG100 (intercoat clear, required for the HOK Kandy Koncentrates) mixed with a touch of Pagan Gold, if your center isn't dark enough for your tastes. I'd probably leave it.

Then mix sg100 with either magenta or violet. Depending on which color suits your taste better. I'd go magenta based on that picture. Fade your first coat evenly for the whole distance you want color. (oops forgot a K color) I'd choose a small HVLP gun like my LPH-80, or the Kustom TH Airbrush. A regular airbrush has about a 2 inch fan, for even coverage Kandies require about a 50% overlap. I have the equipment to do it more effiecently so I would.

Then keep fading more burst color until you have the depth and pattern you like. Maybe for the final pass on the edge just a touch of BC25(black) added to the mix to give it a little extra dark. It won't kill the kandy effect but will give you a "black" kandy.

Then UFC35 clear 2 sessions or more depending on your gun skills, cut buff and polish. If you tape off the Faux binding and base coat the back black like they have you might need another session to make sure your tape lines are burried.

Couple of questions syxxstring, if you read this.

Why UFC35 instead of UC35?

and

Why sg100 for the candy? Couldn't you just tint the UFC35?

Thanks,

Todd

[syxxstring]

I mistyped the UFC35 I think, I'd have to recheck the tech sheets.

You could tint the clear with the Kandy, I think, but Sg100 is much cheaper and you get better depth clearing over the kandy.

[ToddW]

I mistyped the UFC35 I think, I'd have to recheck the tech sheets.

You could tint the clear with the Kandy, I think, but Sg100 is much cheaper and you get better depth clearing over the kandy.

Hey Syxxstring,

I'm not arguing that UFC35 isn't better for a guitar than UC35. I really don't know. UC is supposed to be harder, and UFC more flexible, but that's only compared to each other and from what I understand, both are harder than nitro. I was just looking at both earlier today and wondering which would be better for a guitar. I'm clearly not too concerned with the finish being jet fuel resistant

On the Sg100, I actually did know that you'd put clear over the kandy, but I didn't realize that it'd be a lot cheaper to use the Sg100 for the kandy layers than to just use UFC35 for all the coats.

On a car, I can see how that'd make a huge cost difference. On a guitar, ignoring the few bucks difference, is there any advantage to using the Sg100 over the UC or UFC? For me it's a question of how many things I need to buy.

Thanks,

Todd

[syxxstring]

I had my paint guru visit this thread, since he wrote the HOK tech sheets I figured he'd be able to shed some light. The stuff in quotes is from his email back to me.

We then talked on the phone, so I'm adding in some comments.

Grain filling:

"The use of clear for filling the grain is valid. For deep grain I recommend the System three."

System Tree is a marine epoxy if your unfamiliar.

UC35 vs UFC35

"The clear to use would be the UC35. It's build is more stable in a shorter time and has a slightly harder surface. Although little value in the Guitar venue, it has better chemical resistance."

UFC35 is meant as a flow or final clear. It has a longer flash and dry time and lays out more evenly. However the benefits are lost on small objects like guitars and motorcycles, because the surface are is too small. It also has different spraying properties than does UC35 so to get a great finish requires some readjusting how you spray it. Often times it i used over UC35 after it has been color sanded on large objects.(Boats, cars, helicopters) When he painted the Pimp My Ride Cars he used UFC35 because he needed it to flow and was very limited on buffing and sanding time. If you don't have the experience to make it flow you will loose all its benefits, I won't be busting out the UFC35 anytime soon.

Uro's vs Lacquer:

"The stability of a urethane is the selling point. When doing custom finishes, where a common flake size may be bigger than many coats of lacquer, a solid material will stay put when dried. Since lacquer dries by evaporation the initial dry is very quick. As it dries the film "locks up" actually slowing down the rate of dry. Therefore, one could say, the longer it takes the slower it dies.

Consequentially the squooshing, around screws etc., will be worse in a given time unless the film build is kept very low which, on something really cool, it won't be."

Tinted clear vs using SG100

"The KK in the urethane clear thing is more a matter of film build, time, and stability. Without the concern for UV the SG100 does a fine job in this application."

Basically SG100 has a lower film build, which can be a huge concern in custom paint jobs, it gets too thick and the solvents don't work. The goal of a paint like HOK is that the solvents bite through each layer and lock the whole thing together as one film. Which is where mixing brands will come back to bite you, sometimes they won't bite or over time may even repel. Also the windows for a hardened clear are very short, so for things like artwork it is very limiting and your ability to sand back or remove mistakes are limited.

Think of it this way, if you nail the burst the first time your golden. If you want to add more candy or additional faces or touch ups with a tinted hardened clear its going to be way harder. You don't have to buy a full quart of SG100 either...