Mitch Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Does the fretboard have to be glued to the neck when you fret a guitar? It's lucky I thought of it now because i'm not far off fretting the fretboard and I was planning to fret it before i glued it on the neck. I heard that when you fret a guitar it bends the neck back and maybe that would bend the fretboard enough to snap it. The fingerboard it rosewood and both the wire and the board where from Stewart MacDonald so the wire is the right size for the slot. Help appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 You can fret on the guitar neck or off, either way works. If you fret off the guitar, I recommend sticking the fretboard to a dead flat, heavy, workboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 from that title, i was getting ready for a big laugh..........disapointed; yet releived Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 from that title, i was getting ready for a big laugh..........disapointed; yet releived LOL i had visions of someone trying to use screws or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 My thought was, "How are you going to play the guitar if the fretboard isn't attached to the neck?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decadentjon Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Gibson pre-fret all their fretboards before gluing on necks but i dont really like the idea. Would be easy enough to flex the board in the wrong way and unseat frets a little before its glued to anything. Would probably work fine but you certainly wouldn't want to level them until its all glued up. I don't really see much of a point in doing it this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 I do all my fretboards that way. As I press them in it eliminates the problem with getting adequate support under a thin and slightly flexing neck (exaggerating the problem). Instead I have a very rigid piece of dead flat oak that I use to support the fretboard while pressing them in. That way I also have the exact equal distance from the press and the fretboard and I never have to rearrange the handle of the press or change working position or anything, leading me to a more uniform result. And when the frets are in and the overhang trimmed away (I'm more or less always bind fretboards) it is very easy to just lay the fretboard on a flat surface and do the 30 deg angle on the fret end with a file following the surface and no head or other parts of the neck/guitar (think glued in neck) in the way. So it can definitely be done. Is it better? Its up to you to decide. And yeah, I level the frets when the fretboard has been glued in place, under string preasure, with a neck jig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhattr88 Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 i've done it both ways....however.... i found it is much better to attach the UN-FRETTED FB to the neck, sand it flat, re-radius, then fret the board. the other way makes way too much fret work in the end, because the board will move and cup when it is glued to the neck. matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 the board will move and cup when it is glued to the neck That part I don't get. How can the fretboard cup and move when you fret it if it is already glued to the neck? If so you use an incredibly bad glue or inferiour wood so that it moves with the fretboard, or...I don't know what. If the board is glued to the neck in an proper way it will try to force the combination of fretboard and neck wood to bend slightly backwards. But there is no way that the fretboard should move and cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhattr88 Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) you misunderstood. a non fretted FB will not stay flat after you glue it to the neck. that's why i glue the unfretted FB to the neck, and sand flat (plus radius), then fret the neck/FB combo. if you attach a FRETTED FB to the neck, you will have to level the frets more than if you fretted it to a nice flat FB/Neck combo. this is just the way i do it, it doesn't mean its right or wrong. there are a million ways to do something, and all of them yield the same result. that's what makes guitar building so beautiful. matt Edited January 8, 2009 by madhattr88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaden Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 you misunderstood. a non fretted FB will not stay flat after you glue it to the neck. that's why i glue the unfretted FB to the neck, and sand flat (plus radius), then fret the neck/FB combo. if you attach a FRETTED FB to the neck, you will have to level the frets more than if you fretted it to a nice flat FB/Neck combo. matt I also do this, rough radius, slot (not to depth) and then glue it on before radiusing and fretting etc. swedishluthier, im intreagued that you say you level the frets under string pressure.. ive never heard of it done like that, I ensure that the fingerboard is perfectly flat before I level frets with the truss rod and then go ahead and level.. I get great results but im interested in knowing more of how you do it. excuse my ignorance here but if the neck is under string tension (simulated) then it will have relief... ? no ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 I always glue the fingerboard prior to leveling and fretting too. Having a nice level surface to press the frets into sure beats trying to figure out a jig to clamp an pre-fretted fingerboard down without touching the frets... I use a gluing fixture that pre-stresses the neck too eliminating the backbow effect often associated with glue and or fretting. Ultimately it's whatever works for you... every craftsman has their own time tested technique for just about everything. -Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 a non fretted FB will not stay flat after you glue it to the neck. Why would it not stay flat? I have never had that problem. Are you reffering to the tendency for a thin piece of wood to slightly bend when the water from the glue penetrates it? There are way to compensate for this and those measures shall be taken. if you attach a FRETTED FB to the neck, you will have to level the frets more than if you fretted it to a nice flat FB/Neck combo. I fret my boards off the neck and I do not have to do much levelling at all. But I’m not out to pick a fight. Sorry If I game across as aggressive. I just do not think that a fretboard will cup/move if you do it correct. swedishluthier, im intreagued that you say you level the frets under string pressure.. ive never heard of it done like that, I ensure that the fingerboard is perfectly flat before I level frets with the truss rod and then go ahead and level.. I get great results but im interested in knowing more of how you do it. excuse my ignorance here but if the neck is under string tension (simulated) then it will have relief... ? no ? Why level under string pressure? The neck wood will not move evenly along the neck. All pieces of wood, no matter how good they are, will have weaker and stronger sections, and that will be evident even in a relative short piece like a neck blank. Those sections cause twisting and warping. Even if they are extremely small warps they are there. And those small warps develop under pressure. So if you flatten a neck perfectly without the forces caused by the strings you will get extremely small highs and lows along the neck, causing fret buzzing. The idea is not to level with a relief in the neck. You adjust the neck as straight as possible with the string pressure. Then you level with (simulated) string pressure. But you do not need to use a neck jig to be able to level under string pressure. You can use the Rick Turner system too. Adjust the neck as straight as possible. Get a perfectly straight L-shaped piece of aluminium or steel and stick sand paper to that. Get the sandpaper part under the strings, against the frets, and sand away until flat. Presto! Levelled under string pressure. Having a nice level surface to press the frets into sure beats trying to figure out a jig to clamp an pre-fretted fingerboard down without touching the frets. No thinking at all required I have one of these: from LMII. Fits 25.5, 25 and 24.75” fretboards. It actually helps getting the fretboard/neck even more straight as it is really rigid and the clamping caul becomes the reference that lines things up, not the neck or the fretboard. And as the main clamping pressure is on the outer side of the fretboard, the slight cupping is prevented. In the same time the will to cup is what puts pressure on the centre of the fretboard. I really like this tool and use it every time. Money well spent. Especially as I got mine while they had a few with surface scratches in that they sold for half the price. I also padded the “clamping area” with thin cork to not scratch the finished fretboard. Work like a charm and gives me 100% flat fretboards after gluing. However there are always more than one way to skin a cat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaden Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 interesting, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I also glue the board to the neck before fretting...Actually...I glue the untapered fretboard to the square neck blank before I ever cut,taper,shape...anything...and fretting is the last thing I do on a neck.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 That aluminum thing is cool. In my situation it is not the best option. I make so many different neck sizes and scales that the method I've used for years has proven itself. Fretting in the end has been the process of choice. I always shape the perimeter of the neck and rough contour the back without fingerboard attached. Then taper the slotted fingerboard. After adding the truss rod it's onto the jig and glued up. Honestly, I don't understand the fingerboard cupping comment either... I've made many hundreds of necks and can't recall it being a problem. -Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I have seen it happen twice, a little bit of back-bow when I've glued a rosewood or ebony fretboard onto a neck (maple and walnut) with Titebond - the moisture swells the wood fibers in the neck but not the fretboard, and results in a bit of backbow even when clamped flat. If you have a double-action rod you can tweek it out before you level the board (which I did), but if not then you're stuck. I switched to epoxy because of this. I also prefer to fret the board off the neck, and work out the back-bow before gluing up - stress-free neck. For the taper I actually shape the neck and fretboard separately to a MDF neck taper template using a router table, and then I rough out the neck's back contour on the same template before gluing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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