Tightest Radius You've Ever Bound?

[verhoevenc]

I have two new designs that I REALLY like... but I'm also a bound guitar FIEND and those two things may act against one another...

So, what's the tightest cutaway you've ever gotten away with binding in wood. This is what I plan to do (the left side one, the other should be no problem):

Let's see your wood bending triumphs!

Chris

[NotYou]

I'm about to do some pretty complex wood binding on a double cutaway in the next day or two. I don't know the radius off hand, but it's about as tight as an LP jr. It's going to REALLY tight!

If I don't smash it out of frustration, I'll post some pics when it's done.

[verhoevenc]

This is the other design I was referring to with tight radii:

Chris

[j. pierce]

I haven't done much wooden binding yet - but it can be done

Setch:

http://home.asparagine.net/ant/blog/?p=47

Myka:

http://www.mykaguitars.com/instruments/032/process.htm

Of course, I think we all wish we could build like some of the guys here. My limited experience tells me mere mortals can't get that level of work. But what do I know?

I think the last design you posted lends itself to mitred corners, personally. If you go with a thicker binding, you can still soften the edges somewhat.

[Setch]

Hah - I don't think I should be held up as an example of how to do it, I struggled like crazy, and ended up laminating the binding out of veneer...!

David Myka, on the other hand, clearly has it down cold, as I'm sure Chris knows (how did that visit end up Chris - I lost the thread on the OLF?). Also, Mario Proulx has posted pics on the MIMF of maple bent around a 1/2" radius, so it can be done.

[Woodenspoke]

I think if you are using a thick wood binding (greater than a strip of veneer and not easy to bend) you have to rig up a small diameter copper pipe and a torch and pre bend the wood for the tight sections. Just like bending acoustic sides on a pipe only much easier. Practice first on some scrap. You may or may not need water. Even on the larger sections you may want to bend the binding into the shape of the instrument just use a larger pipe.

I have not done one this but from experience you should be able to bend a strip several times around a 1/2" pipe without effort before it burns.

I'll have to try it.LOL

[BVNichols]

It's possible to go pretty tight if your binding isn't too thick. The binding on this headstock was done with 0.040 - 0.050 inch maple binding:

[erikbojerik]

SuperSoft II is your friend:

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.a...amp;ProdID=6792

[komodo]

SuperSoft II is your friend:

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.a...amp;ProdID=6792

That's fantastic. What is the stuff exactly?

[verhoevenc]

My visit with David was great, and together we were able to bend snakewood PERFECTLY for my dragonfly build (I'll post it up here when it's finally warm enough to spray her clear) and he is quite a master of bending. I was thinking of supersoft II as well, I have a bottle for veneer work already. I'm fine with going thin, but when you go thin that adds a whole new level of problems if you're using figured woods because of the flame's runout... and for the singlecut angular one there will be some fiddleback pink ivory binding on it lol.

I did want to say one other thing, for those of you bending on a pipe, etc. go ahead and shell out the money for one of those oval shaped pipes that violin makers use. I thought it wasn't worth it til I used one at Davids and I was SO wrong! The different shapes on the pipe allow you to work UP TO a tight radius, which really it amazing.

Chris

[NotYou]

This was totally worth it. I think it's the most expensive thing I've ever bought from Stew Mac. Most of their over their over priced stuff you can do without or make yourself(the tutorials are usually in this forum too), but this was well worth the money.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_...nding_Iron.html

Edited February 5, 2009 by NotYou

[verhoevenc]

You can get the same thing (Ibex made bending iron) off the pilgrim projects guy on eBay for $140. Not you don't get the mandolin extension option... but I don't see a need for that with the oval already having an area for tight bends.

Chris

[j. pierce]

…

David Myka, on the other hand, clearly has it down cold, as I'm sure Chris knows

…

That's what I get for not paying attention to who actually posted the question...

[j. pierce]

There was an article about steam bending way back in Fine Woodworking #30 (I think that was 83?) about steam bending. They had another little bit tacked onto the end about bending with ammonia. They were using anhydrous ammonia (so, pure NH3, not the stuff from the drugstore) to plasticize wood, all with some fancy pressure cooker system they had made. basically, it sounded dangerous and sketchy, but the end result was they were able to take 1/4" thick strips, (looked about an inch tall the other direction) and tie them into knots without breaking, and then they'd set that way. The wood darkened somewhat (similar to ammonia fuming finishes on oak) but the picture they showed in the magazine was pretty cool.

[NotYou]

There was an article about steam bending way back in Fine Woodworking #30 (I think that was 83?) about steam bending. They had another little bit tacked onto the end about bending with ammonia. They were using anhydrous ammonia (so, pure NH3, not the stuff from the drugstore) to plasticize wood, all with some fancy pressure cooker system they had made. basically, it sounded dangerous and sketchy, but the end result was they were able to take 1/4" thick strips, (looked about an inch tall the other direction) and tie them into knots without breaking, and then they'd set that way. The wood darkened somewhat (similar to ammonia fuming finishes on oak) but the picture they showed in the magazine was pretty cool.

That got me really interested. I did a search and found this section of some book that talks about it more. It basically says it's done by pressure treating it at 145 psi, or by simply soaking it. It apparently doesn't take long either. Obviously, soaking would be the route must of us would have to take.

I'm tempted to try it for myself. If I do, I'll definitely post pictures.

http://books.google.com/books?id=zjJTsHvHo...6&ct=result

Edited February 6, 2009 by NotYou

[j. pierce]

Here's the only photo from that section of the article in Fine Woodworking:

I don't know if you can still get a free trial membership to FW or not, but used to be you could get 30 days free and search the complete archives. There's not really much info in that article, and like I said, it looks like a fairly complex/hazardous method. But it was pretty interesting.

[NotYou]

I did some research and found out that super soft is basically water and glycerin. The glycerin gets into the wood and holds onto water. I just picked up some glycerin from Rockler this morning and I'm soaking some ebony strips right now. Ebony is barely absorbant at all, but I'm giving it a shot. I'll be back with pictures.

[NotYou]

The glycerin worked pretty well. You can't tie knots in the wood or anything, but it definitely made it easier to manage. I tried a few kinds of wood at different thicknesses. The type of wood didn't seem to make too much difference. Only the very thin (about .04" or less) pieces seemed more flexible before heating. These pictures pieces were done on a bending iron after soaking for about half an hour:

I bent this piece of ebony in less than a minute (it's Stew Mac binding which is .08" thick). With just water, it would have taken much longer.

This thinner piece took only seconds to form.

If you try it, be sure to wear a respirator mask or put a fan in a window. There's no smell to it all, but, after using the bending iron, it gave me a nasty headache and left me a little foggy for awhile. I'm really sensitive to the toxins in black and white ebony, which I also bent, so it might have been the steam from that and not the glycerin, though.

Edited February 9, 2009 by NotYou