bio Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 !Hello friends! As most of u guys im tryin hard to build a guitar, its an amazing satisfaction when u do accomplish something with ur hands. My question is regarding the body of the guitar, ive help a few guys building a guitar with their bodies with the drawin and carving the cavities for the mics and stuff but all the time we used a whole piece of wood large enough to cut the body out. A friend of mine wants to make a mahogany body, but in my country its hard to find mahogany pieces wide enough, so were gonna have to glue 'em, so my question is: Since im gonna have to glue two pieces together, is there any special glue (type, brand) i should use?? Any sugestions are welcome Thanks in advance BIO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Titebond Original (not II or III). And Melvyn Hiscock's Make Your Own Electric Guitar is a must-read. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddW Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Titebond Original (not II or III). And Melvyn Hiscock's Make Your Own Electric Guitar is a must-read. Have fun! I actually like Titebond III. I've never used it, but I would stay way from II since I don't see any advantage to it and some people I know have said they experienced joint line glue creep. Titebond I is good, and I suspect the Elmers wood glue is also fine since I've never had any issues with it, but I used titebond III the most. For a guitar I don't think III is better than the regular titebond, but I don't want to have too many bottles around getting old, and the waterproof part never bothers me. +1 on Melvin's book. Best, Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcissism Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I've been using Titebond II on my bass. It works just like Titebond I, only now i can eat off of my bass if i feel like it. I've been using Titebond I on my guitar, and as far as I can tell, the only difference is that Titebond II had a better initial tack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Titebond Original (not II or III). And Melvyn Hiscock's Make Your Own Electric Guitar is a must-read. Have fun! Beat me to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I used gorilla glue on my most recent body join...and it came out great... Just goes to show you can use any quality glue with good success... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawnofzion Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I have been eyeing that gorrilla wood glue but I know that the gorilla glue foams out and expands so i was worried the wood glue might do somethign similar. Is this the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm sure there are several products that will work just fine, but Titebond has never failed me, and it's inexpensive, so I've had no reason to venture away from it. I do use epoxy and CA at times, but only Titebond to glue up body blanks, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Just goes to show you can use any quality glue with good success... +1 So long as it's a glue designed to work on wood, I'm sure it'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Elmers Interior is very good - I use it since it's the main import glue available over here. As for it supposedly not being waterproof - I once tested this with a couple of pieces of old timber glued together with a good joint - these two piece were left submerged (yes submerged not just sprayed with water). Two days later I removed them thinking they will just fall apart, nope, still completely solid. Never had any problems with it. I think the only time you will have problems with glue is if either the joint is poor, the timber isn't dried fully or the timber has an high oil content - but really these aren't to do with the glue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Gorrilla glue does foam,but I just wiped away the foam with a business card until it stopped expanding...it was really just as easy as cleaning up titebond. I have been having problems with titebond lately...I don't know if I just have a bad batch,but I lost a little faith in it,so I use mostly epoxy and gorilla glue now. Two days later I removed them thinking they will just fall apart, nope, still completely solid. Alphetic resin glue will fail when wet...this sounds like an anecdote to me...and not an honest one to be frank.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Totally straight up! I thought it should/would fail - but I was very surprised also that it didn't! Not that I am in any recommending it for place when waterproof joints are required! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) I don't think glue type is too much to worry about. Just don't get anything too cheap and focus your mind on getting a good glueing surface with the wood(The surfaces should touch EXACTLY all the way along as this is where the glueing will go wrong if anything). I should mention that everyone has their own idea about glue and this could be changed by: the age of the glue, humidity, if any water has got into the glue etc. I have had little experience with different glues and I'm just usuing this unbranded wood glue (from aldi supermarket I think) and I have never had any problems. Anyway, Just my point of view. Sorry if I offended anybody. Edited February 11, 2009 by Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddW Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Alphetic resin glue will fail when wet...this sounds like an anecdote to me...and not an honest one to be frank.. Hey Wes, I agree, it's anecdotal and not a good example, but before you start implying dishonesty, you might want to think about it a bit more. Yes, I'd call it a silly experiment, but wouldn't doubt the results. Standing water can take a lot longer than 2 days to penetrate a well crafted joint on a dense or oily wood. In that situation, I doubt standing water would have softened the glue more than a few mm into the joint. Now, if SJE had left the pieces out in the rain for a week, the moving water and expansion/contraction from temperature changes would probably cause the joint to fail faster. SO SJE's test isn't very valid for someone building outdoor furniture or boats, but it does show that you wouldn't have to worry about problems with minor water exposure like raising the grain or using a water based dye. Best regards, Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Todd, Exactly what I was getting at with my test. Yes it wasn't a true outdoor rain but that wasn't really my main concern when I am sanding to a finish on the body I will often submerge it in water to clean out the dust and also to raise the grain for further sanding. So obviously my thoughts were when I first started using Elmers as it was a new glue to me is will it be falling apart in my hands if I do this too often and obviously the answer was a resounding no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foil1more Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I used titebond liquid hide glue for almost everything on my guitar. It's pretty easy to clean up when it's wet but it dries really hard. I accidentally left the top open and the glue dried in the nozzle. A soak in hot water cleaned it right up. It smells bad though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 If your up the creek without a paddle use Gorilla glue. That way you can paddle out with your guitar The bottom line is you can use any glue at will hold wood together. That said lets say you Axe does make it to a ripe old age. That rock star that bought it destroys the frets and ruins the fingerboard or drops the guitar and rips off the neck. He takes it to some friendly repair tech who has lots of experience rebuilding old guitars. Then after about a hour you can hear curses coming from the repair shop. What $%^ing moron used polyurethane glue???? Water resistance is a bad thing in guitar building, if you build for the future. Titebond original +10 Hide glue +5 (only because of the extra work) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddW Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 ummm, if he's a rock star, he can buy another guitar at that point, which is better for your business Or you can plane off the fingerboard, or put on a new neck. There's always a way . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I believe Woodenspoke's point is, why complicate things? Stick with tried and true methods. I've always used Titebond I for everything, but I plan on using Titebond Polyurethane glue for setting the necks of my current builds due to the superior gap filling capability of poly glues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) +10 Titebond I I have used Titebond II on some projects and had a very very small amount of creep after a few months. I mean small.... but noticable if you run a finger over the joint. BUT and I stress BUT I did not leave the wood to cure for days before finishing the project. I finished the guitar in less than a month and the humidity was all over the charts so I am not sure it was the glue. I have used Titebond III and it is bullet proof when dry. Nice stuff. Works really well on Dark Hard Oily woods. However it is darker and leaves a noticeable glue line on less than perfect joints in maple. On Poly: I have had mixed results with Polyurethane glues on non guitar projects. Its gap fill is good but the strength was overrated on a joint requiring gap fill. I built a shower stool out of Pau Ferro that required a little gap fill and I was disappointed when the pieces had to be reglued. I ended up using more gorilla glue and got better results but I was not happy with the results. It discolors wood. On the joints that were tight it worked like advertised. However, I would like to try titebond polyurethane before I give up on Polys altogether. I doubt I would use it on a guitar. Edited February 11, 2009 by RestorationAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I've always used Titebond I for everything, but I plan on using Titebond Polyurethane glue for setting the necks of my current builds due to the superior gap filling capability of poly glues. Really using that glue is pointless. No reason you should need to fill gaps if the joint is good. If the joint is bad glue in some shims. The glue is very brittle and does not hold as well as you may think. Breaking point on a bridle joint for PVA (titebond original) is 1700 psi, Polyurethane is 1400 psi. The titebond is a stronger joint (fine woodworking study). The reason is it does not absorb into the wood fibers but stays on the surface. Even liquid hide glue took 1500 psi to break. The glue foams out of the joint over many hours, takes forever to setup once clamped unless your shops humidity is off the charts or you pre moisten the parts. I for one would not want to have to clean up that foam off a guitars surface. Taping around the joint is the only way to keep foam off the piece and having to re-sand again. You need to use gloves as that stuff is very sticky once it gets on your skin. Hardens in the bottle after a short shelf span once it's open. Costs way more than titebond. You guys are trying to reinvent the wheel again. What do I have to do, draw a picture for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I agree, it's anecdotal and not a good example, but before you start implying dishonesty, you might want to think about it a bit more. Oh gee...thank you for being the topic crusader...so sorry that I spoke my mind and implied that the anecdote was obviously a "straw man"... People lie on this forum all the time...heaven forbid somebody might get called on it...somebody's feelings may get hurt..I call it how I see it...original titebond is not waterproof...never has been... Anyway...titebond is great...but I see no reason you would ever have to steam apart a body blank down the center line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Anyway...titebond is great...but I see no reason you would ever have to steam apart a body blank down the center line... If you had to use polyurethane glue anywhere gluing neck or body blanks is the optimal choice. I don't think anyone will try steaming that apart plus you still have the emergency paddle option as well. I wonder if anyone has a study on steam and heat VS glue joint failure?? have to Google that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foil1more Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 The first (and last) time I used gorilla glue on a wood project, I was trying to sand it down and getting no where. I realized that the random orbital sander was heating up the glue and making it ooze. Granted, that was my first ever instrument project. I built a dulcimer like thing out of wood and fishing string for a instrument project in middle school while other people had rubber bands and milk jugs. But I digress. Gorilla glue does eventually get brittle and flaky too. I used it to re-attach my car mirror. After about 2 years, I close my door on a hot summer day and the mirror falls off. I'm sure weather accelerated the process but I wouldn't want to risk anything falling apart. There's instruments hundreds of years old built with hide glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddW Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) I call it how I see it...original titebond is not waterproof...never has been... You implied SJE was lying because you seemed to think his test couldn't have worked. But like I said, with a good joint, elmers would hold 2 days in standing water. Boat builders do these tests all the time because for them it's important. Even the interior of a boat can get soaked during a storm or if the boat rolls, so if titebond I wouldn't hold in that case, they wouldn't let it near a boat. Check page 96 in this boatbuilding manual, it seems that elmers carpenter's glue and titebond I took a couple of weeks to fail in a submersion test. I don't consider that waterproof. Maybe SJE does, but I don't think so, I think he's just saying it not being water proof isn't an issue, because it's water proof enough for building a guitar. I don't think he was debating the commercial definition of if would pass as a waterproof glue, which seems to be what you imply calling it a straw man. http://books.google.com/books?id=_XN7BYrCu...1&ct=result You'll find tests like this in boat magazines or on the wood boat forum pretty often, and it appears plain old non-waterproof aliphatic glues hold weeks . . . not days . . . when submerged. I'm glad you call it as you see it, Wes. I'll do the same, OK? - Topic Crusader Todd, over and out . . . Matt, I had no luck gorilla glue holding on some chairs I needed to repair after we moved. There were poorly fitting splintered surfaces. Only tried a couple of times before I gave up on the poly. 2 part epoxy worked for me perfectly. Pretty sure your neck joint will be better fit than those split rails, but either way, epoxy is worth considering when you really need to fill gaps. Regards, Todd Edited February 12, 2009 by ToddW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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