avengers63 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Here's what I made. Here's what happened. I made the binding chanel a little too low. The edges of the top had to be angled down to meet the binding. The darker wood came through around the perimeter. So... without sunbursting the top, how can I hide this? My thought was to dye/stain the top black, sand back, do it red, sand back, do it yellow. That should really make the quilt pop. It should also hide the edges. But what id I didn't want to go through all that? Would one dark color effectively hide it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 So... without sunbursting the top, how can I hide this? its really your best option... i would be figuring out a way to make that work rather than writing it off straight away you are not going to be able to hide it with stain because one wood will always take the stain differently to the other, and they are different textures anyway so it will still be visable do your stain and sandback in a chosen colour then spray a blackburst other than that... damn nice body - are you not tempted to remove the top and redo it with deeper binding or less of a carve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooglebug Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 you could take the top down all teh way round so it looks like double binding? might be a bit tricky to keep it all the same width all the way round but its an idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 other than that... damn nice body Thanks!!! Coming from a pro & veteran, that makes me feel like I'm starting to arrive. are you not tempted to remove the top and redo it with deeper binding or less of a carve No, for multiple reasons. 1) I don't know how. Steam iron? 2) I seriously doubt I'd be able to get it back on straight. 3) there's not much of a carve. It's really just a slight rounding from the binding to the top - maybe 1/4". do your stain and sand back in a chosen colour then spray a blackburst I have no spraying equipment. I'd have to use black spray paint and a body template propped up over the top. Wouldn't that be asking for trouble? Instead of rigging up something involving paint, what if I simply didn't sand back all of the black around the edges? Wouldn't that give the illusion of a burst? I could also do that with the red, so the yellow is more intense in the center. You could take the top down all the way round so it looks like double binding? That's actually a really good idea. Make the mistake uniform to give the illusion of double binding. That'd be a lot easier than a rigged up blackburst! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 are you not tempted to remove the top and redo it with deeper binding or less of a carve No, for multiple reasons. 1) I don't know how. Steam iron? 2) I seriously doubt I'd be able to get it back on straight. 3) there's not much of a carve. It's really just a slight rounding from the binding to the top - maybe 1/4". i would pop it on my router thicknesser (just a router on rails) and take the top down that way since its only a 1/4" ish top i dont think its going to be easy to make the edge look purposefully even ... unless you ditch the binding and give the body a bigger hand carved roundover or bevels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 i would do a very heavy red burst to match that beautiful wood on the back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 unless you ditch the binding and give the body a bigger hand carved roundover or bevels Exactly what I was thinking. Give it a 45 degree bevel around the edge showing both woods. That would look pretty sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Camoflage it with camoflage paint or something. Maybe you could get a precision router (dremel thingy) and go round the edge making a channel just inside the binding then stick some binding or veneer in the channel. Maybe purfling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian d Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 how about purfling? Using a purfling cutter to cut the channel may be a bit time consuming, but will leave a uniform channel. I like the idea of carving a bevel to show both woods, but it's hard to be sure that the line showing will be even. Great looking work though. I reckon this'll be one of those opportunities that only looks like a mistake for now, but will end up as a design feature you can be proud of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I agree with both Daniel's idea of a larger roundover, and also with the idea of wider multi-laminated binding. Either would be great. Buy a teflon strip and pop a load of abalone purfling in :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Abbett Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 If you give up send it to me... I'll take it and use it for something or other! Nice hunk of wood. Worth taking the time to fix. -John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Definitely. Unfortunately, that top doesn't look anywhere near thick enough to have attempted a carve safely (1/4"-3/8"?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 +1 for wider multi-layer binding/purfling. Burst is the next-best (make sure to scrape the binding, don't leave paint on it). I think if you remove the binding now and do a roundover or bevel big enough to eliminate the binding channel, it will be a very big roundover radius/bevel shelf. But it is probably the third-best thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Definitely. Unfortunately, that top doesn't look anywhere near thick enough to have attempted a carve safely (1/4"-3/8"?). That wasn't the original plan. I wanted the top to be flat. It ended up thicker than the height of the binding, so I just wanted a subtle curve on the top, not a full carve. In hindsight, I should have just planed down the top a bit. But what's done is done. At this point, I'm leaning towards making a reveal around the edge. I have a pretty steady hand. I'll be getting some sanding drums for my Dremel this afternoon and having a go at it. Unless someone comes up with a better idea that I can work with before then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Definitely. Unfortunately, that top doesn't look anywhere near thick enough to have attempted a carve safely (1/4"-3/8"?). i have done similar to what was attempted here on a few guitars, not a full carve but more like a softer bevel/roundover works fine with 1/4" tops. when i have done it with bound guitars i have made sure there is at least 2mm of the top wood below the line of the binding... that way you wont carve through as long as you dont hit the binding, and you still have a couple of mm worth of wood as a buffer when you come to scrape or sand it all level. it may not seen worth doing a 4mm carve but it can make a big difference to the final look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I'd be tempted to make an over-arm router setup and route it for thicker (multi-ply) binding. It'd also make doing an even reveal easier using a chamfer bit. This one at Doolin guitars is kind if fancy, but you get the idea. A sturdy base to hold the router in place over the work. There are a variety of methods for making these, searching for pin routers or overarm router turns up many results. The super fancy ones have fully articulated arms and such. It doesn't seem a difficult task, just keep safety in mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I just need to point out here that this isn't MY mistake. It's yours. I make plenty of my own thank you very much. I like a wood-on-wood transition, but that's not going to fit with what you wanted from the guitar, so it might end up being a disappointment for you. My suggestion is to take a few more days to think about it, figure out something that will be right. Why can't you remove this binding and use a taller binding? Wouldn't that hide the problem? Or remove the binding, find a way to add a contrasting horizontal layer to the channel (like one of those herringbone bindings, checkerboard, or just plain black) to bring it to the proper height for the binding you want to use. Anyway, more than one way to correct YOUR mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Burn it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Once you start down the fix it path you may make it worse. If your top taper isn't perfectly even then routing or sanding to the darker wood would be problematic. Also the center strip in the back will also show through. Seems a bit chancy at best. You can get canned sunburst finishes from Re-Ranch so you don't need spray equipment. I don't know if this has been mentioned but how's about removing 1/8" around the guitar and trash the binding altogether, may not look so bad? Sleep on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 The first picture looks nice The second makes me crack a fat The rest make me realise the problem you have got Give it to me - Problem solved!! No but seriously (I don't have any experience with binding) but I would try to take it off and do a re-shape (It shouldn't change too much) (But then I do things that no-one else would ever do...believe me!) Let me explain, a picture paints a thousand words Between the pickup wells you can see the join on the left, But can you see the join on the right? What I mean is, don't rush things. Today you might have of an idea but think it would be impossible or take too long, but if you leave it a few days (go fishing or something) then come back to it you may realise that idea you had is the only way to go... That is a "rooly" nice lookin' piece of lumber and I hope it goes well for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Burn it!! I was wondering why I was drawn to this thread like a moth to a flame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hard to tell but it looks like where you went through the top is very narrow. I'd spindle sand the body a bit where you went through and recut the binding channel and rebind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 What about bleaching the darker timber to make it lighter? I don't know what they use but I know they do it in carpentry - cabinetmaking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Burn it!! I was wondering why I was drawn to this thread like a moth to a flame Careful you don't fall into the next bonfire you set there, Drak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 If someone would do me the service of moving this over to the WIP section, I'd really appreciate it. I tried a few things to dig myself out of the hole I put myself into. For me, taking off the binding or trimming in the edge wasn't an option. After reading all the great suggestions posted here (many thanks), I got to work. The first thing I tried was to make the reveal even all the way around. That didn't work out so well. No, you can't see the results. So I thought to imitate a tiger-eye burst with a sand-back. I chose to experiment with some inexpensive, thin pieces of quilt. If it worked, I'd use it in a box lid. I started with ebony stain around the edges, which would have been necessary to hide the reveal. From there, I sanded back and tried to progress to walnut, pecan, and a light amber-like maple stain. The results totally obscured the quilting. Option #2 - done. No, you can't see the results. So I'm on to option #3 - dye & a spray black burst. I still have some thin quilt pieces to work on, and I have a can of black spray lacquer, so I think I should be good to go on this one. At this point, I'd REALLY appreciate an ounce of guidance. I'll be rubbing in the dye by hand, and I've never done this before. The first step is to seal & fill the sapele base. This requires taping the heck out of the edges. We can't have any sealer gumming up the top, can we. Plus, this hides the edges I f'ed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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