psw Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hmmm....I've kept unusually queit on this on.... good call Mattia, on all points! Really, some things are left to the irrational world of dreams. I am surprised at the desire to have the notes written on a fret board...everyone should aspire to be a bit more than that, it's not that hard to learn a sequence along a string, it's the same sequence, 12 notes...two of the strings are generally identical! A classical player wouldn't be seen dead with dots on the board, let alone number or dots...sheeesh! ok... So...on a few other "innovative ideas"...can anyone say Charlie Hunter 8 strings stereo, bass and organ by one man, no bass player just sax and drums and a multi scale, fan fretted, 8 string guitar with separate outs for the bass and guitar strings...both coils of a precision bass pickup on the bass strings (so full power and humbucking) and separate pickups for the higher strings through some organ like effects... True...he has some weird inlays, so clearly not a great musician yet! However, if the organ bass thing doesn't rock your socks check out the other videos like "if 6 were 9" for some hendrixy stuff and bass! Notice too that although he is playing both bass and guitar and has inlays...he rarely looks at them!!!!!! ... Almost everything has been "done" before, but few have survived if it isn't of any real genuine use. The new steinbeger has a permanent rolling capo...the trans trem allowed locking into various tunings before that...the hipshot trillogy allows multiple tunings for every string with leavers... How many artists have made this a real feature of their music, let alone their instruments. Still...strive we seem condemned to do to innovate...I've spent my whole life pursuing better mousetraps! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Fretboard like a piano with black and white inlays.... well, I thought of that when I built my first guitar, because I had 10 yrs of piano lessons and dont play guitar. I almost did it and planned on tuning every string to "C" so the "keys" would be right... until one of my friends who plays guitar mentioned chords would be impossible... I wasn't thinking of changing the tuning of the guitar. My idea is to have like a maple fretboard with ebony inlays under all the sharp/flat notes. That means little pieces of wood about 5/16" wide under the strings between the appropriate frets. Yeah a lot of work! On the other hand, a lot of luthiers put very elaborate designs into the fretboard. I think the piano idea is quite simple compared to that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 That would be the Gizmotron. Sigh....maybe they'll reissue it. I just picked up a new Stylophone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 That would be the Gizmotron. Sigh....maybe they'll reissue it. I just picked up a new Stylophone... Hahahahaa... It sent Godley and Creame broke...it's a great instructive story to would be innovators. Even if you got one, you'd never find replacement rotating picks... It reminds me though that at the time my tinkering brain thought...hmm, I could do that! So, they had an electric toothbrush that has a side to side action...i may have pinched a housemtes....cut a groove in the head and inserted an ordinary pick...sounded like dick dale on speeed!!!! However, the motor in the tooth brush gave off an electric signal roughly of the note G that was transferred to the pickups no matter how you held the thing. This is a "problem" with anything that has motors and such in them around guitar pickups. There is an obscure school of guitar playing though (popular with loopers) that exploits this kind of thing by using various mechanical toys. I saw one looper that did all kinds of crazy things...including running a tiny toy car down driving down the length of the strings...hahhaa Steve Stevens got a lot of his ray gun like effects on Billy Idol's records by the use of toys pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 John Suhr recently posted that he's working on the idea of alternatives to wood for guitars. He even mentioned the word *plastic*. It will be very interesting to me to see what he comes up with. I don't think he would just repeat what others like Steinberger have already done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 There's a company out there that does a compound 'twisted' neck that rotates along the same shape your hand does when it moves up the board. Not sure if they're combined it with fanned frets as well. You have jolted my memory - On the thread with pictures of my guitars, someone complimented me for the one that has the body thick at the bottom and thinner at the top so the fretboard is easier to see. The twisted neck was one of the concepts that inspired me to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I was toying with the idea of inlaying actual numbers in the usual fretboard spots. Sort of a learning thing for reading tabs quicker. I can't find the picture, but Paul Gilbert had a guitar for a while with colored numbers instead of dots. are you thinking of jason becker russ garehan did a nice double neck version of that using inlays and fretboard cut by doug at parable guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Ross Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 There's a company out there that does a compound 'twisted' neck that rotates along the same shape your hand does when it moves up the board. Not sure if they're combined it with fanned frets as well. That's the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLi8pOa6zYk. Great concept, but I can't imagine what a pain it is to set up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) For the record, I think all the 'alternate fret marker ideas' are fairly pointless... I do agree, the idea of the black-and-white "piano" fretboard would just be a bit of a gimmick. But it would help you learn your Ionian scale! To this day I still don't know if I'm playing a major, sharp or flat note unless I relate back to the 1st or 6th string and work it out ...Instead of having frets fixed to the fretboard what if they were attached to your fingers?... The last bit is called a 'slide', and 'fretless instruments', and are older than fretted instruments by far. I'm not talking about a slide or fretless board. I'm talking about a crazy idea that was probably conjured up during an alcohol-influenced dream! Cut a long story short - Just imagine if wherever you put your finger on the board, there's a fret under it. Of course you could just use a fretless board but it would sound like plucking a violin... Edited March 4, 2009 by Crusader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Just imagine if wherever you put your finger on the board, there's a fret under it. Of course you could just use a fretless board but it would sound like plucking a violin... enter the vigier surfreter http://www.vigierguitars.com/page/fiche_pr...php?id_prod=255 http://www.vigierguitars.com/html/Descript...cheUS_surf.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billm90 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) I'm not talking about a slide or fretless board. I'm talking about a crazy idea that was probably conjured up during an alcohol-influenced dream! Cut a long story short - Just imagine if wherever you put your finger on the board, there's a fret under it. Of course you could just use a fretless board but it would sound like plucking a violin... So what if you had little finger condoms, that had a piece of fret attached on each tip. Basically you will have 4 slides, free to do as you please. jack up your string action, or remove the frets. Now currious to what this would soundlike on an aluminum fretless-fretboard. (oxi-moron there) Usually when I dream up something do-able. (Non bent neck and strings), I try to make it happen. I Find someone else made it happen, and still try anyways. I am working on making a toy keyboard (because they are simple) play as I fret a note. Got the idea when I came across that midi jam bass http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/1998/Jam-Bass.html , which is midi buttons on the back of the neck that enable you to play bass notes, or trigger whatever have you with your thumb. I thought I had the electrical worked out in my head, and then I lost it. I should write things down. I also wanted to put 2 bass strings on the back of my guitar neck. basically slightly recessed, with a fret board so I could thumb tap bass notes. can I play this. No idea. lol Edited March 5, 2009 by billm90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 So what if you had little finger condoms, that had a piece of fret attached on each tip. Basically you will have 4 slides... Sorry if people misunderstand me but my idea is similar to what you're saying but the fret still goes under the strings, otherwise it wouldn't be a fret! Today I was thinking about it and plausible things actually started coming to mind, and guess what its already been done! Thankyou WezV. The metal fingerboard is exactly what I started to think of, believe it or not! The process of thought went from having multiple frets to a rough metal plate (like lots of tiny frets) inserted into certain areas. Then the idea went from that, to having this type of rough metal surface all over the fretboard. A fretless board that gives you freedom of pitch and still gives sustain like a guitar instead of the "pluck" of a violin! Will read-up now on this metal fretboard Hey billm90 the idea of having strings on the back of the neck is similar to something I thought of. But my idea was more like an alternative to having a trussrod And I know what you mean when you say you should have written it down. Ideas come and they fade so quickly! I like the idea of buttons on the back of the neck but I wouldn't say its completely new. Its combined with a keyboard on the Piano-Accordion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 So what if you had little finger condoms, that had a piece of fret attached on each tip. Maybe metal thimbles...or, chop the top off and replace the finder tips Tony Iommi style! As a teenager I had an idea of adding a small casio keyboard type thing below the picking part of the strings as a "surf guitar" so I could play the cheesy organ parts in the middle 8's. Of course, you could do something like the GuitarOrgan and segment and wire each fret to trigger an internal organ! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billm90 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 So what if you had little finger condoms, that had a piece of fret attached on each tip. Maybe metal thimbles...or, chop the top off and replace the finder tips Tony Iommi style! As a teenager I had an idea of adding a small casio keyboard type thing below the picking part of the strings as a "surf guitar" so I could play the cheesy organ parts in the middle 8's. Of course, you could do something like the GuitarOrgan and segment and wire each fret to trigger an internal organ! pete The fret trigger was the plan, I have a beatdown acoustic it will go in (with electric pickups). Pretty much ike how they do the lighted led fret markers triggered by the frets. Besides wirring issues. I can see how a simple full bar chord of 6 notes, will get me 9 notes on the organ/keyboard. which could get annoying. lead playing on one string, where you leave your pointed finger in place, and use the other 3 fingers. That will have a constant tone playing. Some of these would be issues, some could be the very thing that make it cool. I guess one would have to learn a new way to play. These are the thing I sit and think through. At first I thought just low organ tones on the E and A strings, then I thought why limit myself. I could install 6 switches to shut down each string. ahhh... what a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 No...the guitar Organ is real...behold the splendor!~ An entire old school vox organ (heavy) inside a guitar! Each fret is segmented into pieces one for each string...so a bar chord would give you the exact same notes as the chord of the guitar...but you had better be in tune...hahahha...and standard tuning...hehehhe...and the rest of the band tuned to you...hohohoho A wiring nightmare...it does actually work (but if you bend notes off it's fret segment it might get ugly) and there are those that use them...synth guitars have pretty much replaced this kind of thing of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billm90 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 No...the guitar Organ is real...behold the splendor!~ An entire old school vox organ (heavy) inside a guitar! Each fret is segmented into pieces one for each string...so a bar chord would give you the exact same notes as the chord of the guitar...but you had better be in tune...hahahha...and standard tuning...hehehhe...and the rest of the band tuned to you...hohohoho A wiring nightmare...it does actually work (but if you bend notes off it's fret segment it might get ugly) and there are those that use them...synth guitars have pretty much replaced this kind of thing of course! wow, that looks fun, lot of thing to play around with. I was thinking segemneted frets a while back, I just done know how to make one that will get me high milage. Then I thought of putting 2 recesed screws type things in the fretboard between the frets, to complete the circuit. given it was built so the strings would not get caught on them. This could help deal with bends, as it would shut off the organ tone when you bent past the screw. but then you may trigger the next strings screw. I also thought I may want a noise gate type thing so the organ does not sound unless it is strum. Now I can see where a ton of on/off switch options come into play. as for synth, I have a vg-88. Not as much fun as trying to make something silly like a toy organ guitar. lol Speaking of which, what would happen if you ran the organs speaker output into an amp? boom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billm90 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) I just dug this vid up http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2008/12/vox-v251-guitar.html The only shot of the fret I can find this far Edited March 5, 2009 by billm90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 ...Maybe metal thimbles...or, chop the top off and replace the finder tips Tony Iommi style!...Ha Ha, somebody had to say it! Tell you what - I am blown away by that organ-guitar its incredible, but it just looks like so much work! Talking about organs reminds me of another idea I had regarding true pitch but not with guitars Organs are all electronic so why can't they alter sound according to what chord you're playing and achieve true pitch? It might be a circuitry nightmare but I think it could be done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I just dug this vid up a true innovation - it invented tapping!!! hmm... and i see the parker fly headstock in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonkey Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 That's the coolest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 That's the coolest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. The coolest thing I'll see in my life is when Haken takes this thing and makes a guitar-neck version bolted to a body. Haken Continuum Fingerboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 i have always struggled to look at those things!! the even fret spacing and non-tapered neck really confuse the old noggin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 If I ever take up Golf, think I'll grab me one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Captain Picard plays a chapman stick incorporating and rotating speaker and golden horn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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