S/s/h Wiring Problems

[Brian Austin]

Hi Everyone, Last night I was installing some Tonerider pickups in a Strat type guitar of mine that has an S/S/H arrangement with a 5 way switch. I put a pair of City Limits (single coils) in the neck & mid positions with a Generator (humbucker) in the bridge, and wired it all up as per the enclosed instructions to match a Tonerider/Fender RWRP mid pickup. I also put an on/on mini-toggle switch in to split the coils on the Generator.

I am a little bit confused about a couple of things though:

1. When split, it is the neck facing coil of the bridge pick up that is cut and not the bridge facing coil. I don’t know if this is normal or not but when I have split dual humbucker guitars in the past with an on/on mini-toggle it is always the outer two coils that are cut.

2. As I expected with this set up, the neck & mid positions by themselves are not noise cancelling (although position 2 - the neck-mid is position is). However, when I select position 4 (with the mid and the humbucker split - bridge facing coil on) it is noise cancelling but the sound is very trebly, weak & low in volume. In the same position (4) with the humbucker not split, it is no longer noise cancelling but still thin & very trebly!

It sounds to me like maybe I have wired it up incorrectly and made position 4 out of phase with the bridge humbucker, although I did follow the supplied wiring diagram correctly and reversed the live and the earth wires of the humbucker to match the RWRP mid position single coil. I guess if it is out of phase then that would explain the low volume & thin trebly sound.

Have any of you guys had a similar problem? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brian.

[psw]

It's not uncommon for the position 4 to be suspect on an H/S/S strat. Even if the guitar is wired correctly so it is electrically in phase, the positon of the middle pickup in relation to the bridge pickup is what gives position 4 on an S/S/S strat (and position 2) that distinctive "out of phase" sound.

Not splitting the HB in position 4 can give an almost telecaster-ish bite with the three coils for instance.

The H/S/S configuration is something of a "compromise" in a strat, though you can get good sounds out of it. If the bell like tones are enough in position 2, then consider combining perhaps bridge and neck pickups (perhaps split HB) for a tele like both pickups sound.

To do this kind of thing though, you may need to use a "super switch".

Often splitting the HB can give unusual or unexpected results, especially with phase issues. Reversing the wiring on the HB won't reverse the pickup to get noise canceling for instance, necessarily (although you can physically turn the pickup around in installing to reverse the magnetism effectively).

Often the split is the coil closest to the bridge and the middle to get noise canceling and to create more distance between the middle and bridge coils...this can sometimes have a better effect in the natural "out of phase" effect by sampling and canceling different frequencies.

Another option might be all pickups on in position 4...this can sometimes add back the depth of the neck pickup to the thinness of the bridge and middle alone

Another alternative is to add tone caps or resistors to the switch in position 4 to lessen the amount of middle to bridge or visa versa till you get a sound that is useful to you. Again, often more switching power is required not to effect other positions.

But...yes...a perpetual problem with H/S/S strats in position 4.

hope that helps a little. Of course, you may have things back to front and so "electrically" out of phase...even puting them out of phase can sometimes give a good effect and cancel out some of the natural out of phaseness...if that makes any sense at all!

pete

[Brian Austin]

It's not uncommon for the position 4 to be suspect on an H/S/S strat. Even if the guitar is wired correctly so it is electrically in phase, the positon of the middle pickup in relation to the bridge pickup is what gives position 4 on an S/S/S strat (and position 2) that distinctive "out of phase" sound.

Not splitting the HB in position 4 can give an almost telecaster-ish bite with the three coils for instance.

The H/S/S configuration is something of a "compromise" in a strat, though you can get good sounds out of it. If the bell like tones are enough in position 2, then consider combining perhaps bridge and neck pickups (perhaps split HB) for a tele like both pickups sound.

To do this kind of thing though, you may need to use a "super switch".

Often splitting the HB can give unusual or unexpected results, especially with phase issues. Reversing the wiring on the HB won't reverse the pickup to get noise canceling for instance, necessarily (although you can physically turn the pickup around in installing to reverse the magnetism effectively).

Often the split is the coil closest to the bridge and the middle to get noise canceling and to create more distance between the middle and bridge coils...this can sometimes have a better effect in the natural "out of phase" effect by sampling and canceling different frequencies.

Another option might be all pickups on in position 4...this can sometimes add back the depth of the neck pickup to the thinness of the bridge and middle alone

Another alternative is to add tone caps or resistors to the switch in position 4 to lessen the amount of middle to bridge or visa versa till you get a sound that is useful to you. Again, often more switching power is required not to effect other positions.

But...yes...a perpetual problem with H/S/S strats in position 4.

hope that helps a little. Of course, you may have things back to front and so "electrically" out of phase...even puting them out of phase can sometimes give a good effect and cancel out some of the natural out of phaseness...if that makes any sense at all!

pete

Hi pete, thanks very much for your rely and it does make sense! You are right about the Tele like sound on position 4....even though at present it has much less volume than the other postions. I might have a go at switching the wires around and see how it sounds I can always swap them back I guess!

Thanks, Brian.