Dying A Maple Top What Medium Do You Prefer

[Woodenspoke]

I am going to be testing out dyeing a new maple top I am building. But first I was wondering what medium do you you prefer for transtint dyes. I read about water all the time and then there is alcohol. I know alcohol will evaporate faster but it does not raise the grain so dramatically.

I will be raising the grain first with water regardless.

What do you use and why??

[MiKro]

I am going to be testing out dyeing a new maple top I am building. But first I was wondering what medium do you you prefer for transtint dyes. I read about water all the time and then there is alcohol. I know alcohol will evaporate faster but it does not raise the grain so dramatically.

I will be raising the grain first with water regardless.

What do you use and why??

Spoke, I use Transtint and alcohol. No worry about raising the grain. No water before or after

Just my .02cents

MK

[Woodenspoke]

Spoke, I use Transtint and alcohol. No worry about raising the grain. No water before or after

Just my .02cents

MK

Are you flooding the top with alcohol first or applying it dry (well not dry you know what I mean).

[Narcissism]

I use water. I'm not much of a finishing person, but I did try alcohol, and it gave me a slightly different feel for how much time I have to work with it before the surface is no longer prepped. I prepped the surface with whatever medium I was going to use. I preferred water because I was using the grain popping tutorials, and raising the grain just seemed to make sense after I sanded it and saw all the "poppage."

[Drak]

I use all three types, water, alcohol, and metallic, for different applications.

For direct application right onto bare wood, I tend to prefer waterbased.

I think the waterbased colors are snappier and have more 'pop', or 'pow'.

For vintage, warm colors, like amber, red, brown, etc, either one will work fine.

For more colorful colors like yellow, blue, green, etc., I think waterbased is more colorful.

[Woodenspoke]

I use all three types, water, alcohol, and metallic, for different applications.

For direct application right onto bare wood, I tend to prefer waterbased.

I think the waterbased colors are snappier and have more 'pop', or 'pow'.

For vintage, warm colors, like amber, red, brown, etc, either one will work fine.

For more colorful colors like yellow, blue, green, etc., I think waterbased is more colorful.

I refer to the Transtint dyes which are both water or Alcohol soluble. The little bottles of liquid dye. Are you saying the aniline dye's you are using are much better. I know transtint also has a line of water soluble dye in powder form.

If you could use the same dye with either medium what would you prefer?

[MiKro]

Spoke, I use Transtint and alcohol. No worry about raising the grain. No water before or after

Just my .02cents

MK

Are you flooding the top with alcohol first or applying it dry (well not dry you know what I mean).

I actually mix the transtint with my alcohol. This way I can control the color better. It doesn't take much alcohol and transtint to make enough for use.

Edited May 17, 2009 by MiKro

[Woodenspoke]

Spoke, I use Transtint and alcohol. No worry about raising the grain. No water before or after

Just my .02cents

MK

Are you flooding the top with alcohol first or applying it dry (well not dry you know what I mean).

I actually mix the transtint with my alcohol. This way I can control the color better. It doesn't take much alcohol and transtint to make enough for use.

Sorry I meant mixing if first with alcohol but also wetting the wood as well.

[MiKro]

Spoke, I use Transtint and alcohol. No worry about raising the grain. No water before or after

Just my .02cents

MK

Are you flooding the top with alcohol first or applying it dry (well not dry you know what I mean).

I actually mix the transtint with my alcohol. This way I can control the color better. It doesn't take much alcohol and transtint to make enough for use.

Sorry I meant mixing if first with alcohol but also wetting the wood as well.

okay, Sometimes I have done that, but most times I just dye it and comeback with alcohol to blend if needed. If I want more control, I spray it.

[pinefd]

Spoke, whichever way you end up going, make sure you do some tests first with wood from the same board (if possible). I have been really struggling lately applying dye directly to maple, and I've tried virtually all types of dye, and all methods. I keep getting quite a bit of unwanted blotchiness on the wood, which is a result of dye soaking into the end grain. I've come to the conclusion that it's the type of maple I'm using, since I haven't had this difficulty with other types of maple. I believe the type of wood I'm using is a soft Eastern maple, FWIW. Hard rock maple and Western maple seem to take dye much better.

Frank

[MiKro]

Spoke, whichever way you end up going, make sure you do some tests first with wood from the same board (if possible). I have been really struggling lately applying dye directly to maple, and I've tried virtually all types of dye, and all methods. I keep getting quite a bit of unwanted blotchiness on the wood, which is a result of dye soaking into the end grain. I've come to the conclusion that it's the type of maple I'm using, since I haven't had this difficulty with other types of maple. I believe the type of wood I'm using is a soft Eastern maple, FWIW. Hard rock maple and Western maple seem to take dye much better.

Frank

THere in the problem, Maple Blotches so I with a scrap if I get Blotch, the wipe on and blend works and the spray gun is used for tinting coats.

mK

[Woodenspoke]

I have done several tests using alcohol and the transtint dyes. The first test was the difference using black vs dark brown to pop the figure. The brown seems like a better choice. However the blue vs red was a different story. The blue was very uneven and blotchy compared to the red. Now this was wiping it on.

The maple is a hard maple.

I think I may just directly spray on the color dye after darkening the figure on my next test. I am trying to avoid tinting the clear coats since I have always done it this way with marginal results. After reading all these posts and seeing the direct dye results this is the better way to add color. It doesn't mean I cant add additional color to some projects as a tint but for the maple it seems like direct dye is the way to go.

I though was that water vs alcohol made a big difference in the results, but I guess that isn't true. Maybe I should look through my dry powders and see what I have to play with.

[Drak]

You can spray your dye directly onto the wood, but you want to set your gun up

for lots of air, very little product flow.

You want that dye to be almost dry as it's hitting the wood, and even if you're spraying flat, NO puddling.

If you get ONE run (if it's hanging), it's game over and you'll have to clean up and start all over again.

I do it all ways, I've done bursts as toner coats and bursts sprayed right onto the wood, so I'm familiar with what can happen.

If I wasn't doing a burst right onto the wood, I always wipe on the basecoat dye.

Actually, the way I do it MOST of the time is base coat wiped on, cleared over, then burst coats as toner coats, so it's really a mixture of the two ways.

And I always use water as the medium when wiping on.

[Woodenspoke]

I keep getting quite a bit of unwanted blotchiness on the wood, which is a result of dye soaking into the end grain.

I have been playing a bit as I have to do that maple top in another post. Blotch seems to be the issue with my test board as will be with my top as it is from the same billet.

I played around with black and brown base coats but the grain is too undefined, Space between the flame is all over the place. It was a so-so piece but I used it anyway as that is what I had laying around. So several dark base coat attempts were disappointing.

I also changed from mixing the liquid dye in a solution to just adding the dye directly to a wet rag (alcohol soaked). This way it is full strength but easy to spread evenly. I have spray equipment and small air brushes but right now I wanted to learn to do it by hand.

With a dark purple/red base coat (bordeaux) I was able to make the red I wanted to look acceptable. What do you think (not about the wood)? It has a coating of shellac on the test board for a sealer. As you rotate the board you do get that holographic effect.

[Maiden69]

Lots of times when you get blotch patches on your stain it is because the wood was not properly prepared, or the grain not blown clean prior to staining. Dust on the grain will soak more tint and make it darker, so will rough spots on the wood. I have followed Drak's and David's instructions since I joined the forum and I have never had an issue with stain. Also, a little trick that I came up with for staining dark sand back was to stain the dark color diluted in alcohol and then the bright color with water, that way the dark color tend to bleed less.

[Woodenspoke]

Lots of times when you get blotch patches on your stain it is because the wood was not properly prepared, or the grain not blown clean prior to staining. Dust on the grain will soak more tint and make it darker, so will rough spots on the wood. I have followed Drak's and David's instructions since I joined the forum and I have never had an issue with stain. Also, a little trick that I came up with for staining dark sand back was to stain the dark color diluted in alcohol and then the bright color with water, that way the dark color tend to bleed less.

It was a test piece so I only went down to a quick 320 on a vacuum hooked up RO. I think you have changed the meaning of what I sad. My blotch was due to the figure not being defined enough, or separated clearly. Not a physical issue with the staining process and I had no bleeding issues in any test piece. If the figure was well defined I dont think I would have had the same problem using the darker base colors.

My new thought for the week is sometimes the wood dictates what need to be done, not every procedure will work for every piece of wood.

No one has said if the board looks OK? If it doesn't tell me dont hold back.

[Drak]

My new thought for the week is sometimes the wood dictates what need to be done

Now you're getting somewhere my man.

Too many people new to working with wood do not understand this basic concept at all

and try to force their own way on the wood, creating disharmony between themselves and their project,

always trying to force the wood to do something it will never do and never understanding why things don't seem to work out.

I call it the Organic Woodworking Concept, and I ALWAYS follow that rule.

I never take the wood as hostage, or for granted.

I understand the wood has an opinion and is NOT simply a blank canvas.

It has 'leanings' (or it's own opinions if you wanna get all metaphysical about it),

and when you finally learn to work with it, you will start to advance much faster,

as you are now working as a team player, and not as a dick-tator( ), subjecting the wood to your dictatorial rule.

It's like when being part of a team, you find out all the strengths of all the players, and utilize those strengths to everyone's advantage on that team to win.

Each piece of wood has it's own strengths and weaknesses, and when you really start to grasp this concept,

your building will really start to rocket forward.

A person who always has to have his own way and will not take outside opinions never makes a good team player.

Good on you and Gold Star appointed to you for 'getting it', because so many never do.

[yorgo]

I think it looks good!