ihocky2 Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Well the first thing I would do to broaden your search is to stop searching just in your area or country. Use MSC or Alibaba and seach for it. Both of those sites are industrial link sites. They will give you a hit for every company that carries phenolic resin products in the world. Go straight to the manufacturer, they might not be willing to sell small quantities to you, but I guarantee you they can give you a listing of the nearest company that will. Call these companies up and tell them what you want. They might not be able to do it, but they can always point you in the right direction. You might not find it right in your back yard, but I would imagine shipping across a few countries in Europe is cheaper than shipping from the US. Don't really on just the internet. In this modern age people seem to forget that phones exist for purposes other than text messages. If the only listing you have for a company is a phone number, call them. You said yourself that your country and area of Europe are not as developed yet. There are companies who will deal with what you need, they just might not have a website. Check the phone book for sign companies, plastic suppliers, anyone who makes products out of plastic and call them up. They might over charge you buy their standards, but knowing what you will pay to get it else where, you will still get a great deal on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 There are companies that cut to size, and ship anywhere, so it seems, by what I've come across on google. Maybe contact this place : http://www.professionalplastics.com/ All those little flags looked so festive, that I spun round and round in my swivel chair. Felt just like being at a theme park. I doubt this helps, but I've heard from some that black paper phenolic has also been called 'ebonol '. If you do finally find a workable deal from a supplier, don't forget that maybe you need some other plastics materials too, like white rod for dots, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModulusMK Posted May 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Of course we have phones here . That was the second thing I tried after going from store to store in neighbor area. Anyway it's more difficult to find a store or manufacturer in a phone book than on the internet. I checked Alibaba long time ago, there isn't any sheet that suits the use. On MSC they don't have black phenolic... Just have sent email to pro plastics, so will see what it will be. Thanks for this info though. I think ebonol is something very close to phenolic like phenolite is. And I have almost everything about the bass to finish it, except fretboard and magnets for pickup. I'm planing to wind a pup not to buy any EXCEPT if I find a Lane Poor MM 4 string. Everything that can be made at home I want to try. I noted in previous posts from where I am. Macedonia is the country. I understand you guys there, but someone to come here I think will understand me. I'm not writing here for nothing just to bother you and ask maybe "stupid" and boring repeatable questions. Also I'm NOT just complaining that here we have nothing for someone to get pissed of my writing and complaints, I'm writing the real life here...and asking for help if someone can help me. Many of the companies in USA about smaller quantity of products don't want to hear for shipping here..that is not my fault. All the rest throughout the world are more difficult to find in any way especially at my area. What refers to price... oh man, USA products are between the cheapest ones (this does not at all mean not good, just it is cheaper to produce it there because of USA's developed industry). And believe me, it's almost HALF the price for me to purchase something from there combined with shipping rather to find it here just the product. Take for an example a bass strings. In USA D'Addario's cost about $20. Here the same strings are 35 euros. Converted in Macedonian denars is $1 - 46 denars, 1 euro - 61 denars, so $20x46=920 denars, 35 euros x 61 denars = 2135 denars. Notice the difference? Please don't get me wrong on this.. just wanted to clarify some things and continue with posts related with this forum . All the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Just keep contacting every company you can find on the internet. Glad it wasn't that hard when I bought phenolic. I paid $6.00 per board, so I thought it was worthwhile to experiment with. I had thought I paid $14.00 per board, but that was what real ebony was selling for at the time. Funny how my brain stuck the price from one onto another. I have spent great lengths of time trying to get supplies. When stainless frets were only available to big companies, I spent 2 years trying to track down the sources. (not 2 years full time, but you know what I mean). There have been other things that I had to give up on. Sometimes it was for the best, because there's been a few things I realized I was better off not getting. It would really be best for a supplier to cut the pieces for you. That Phenolic is a little hard on blades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModulusMK Posted May 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 I wish I had that luck of easy finding phenolic.... Now still waiting for answer from pro plastics. And I'M writing to every company I find on the web!!! But not many have the thing especially in small quantities and shipping to Macedonia. This is getting too much... It will really be the best for a supplier to cut the pieces for me for less shipping costs, yes. I will be more than happy and grateful to find what I need just to have someone to send them to me here... When companies hear small quantities and where to ship... they do not answer at all... That is the main problem. I did not quiet understand you about stainless frets, did get them or not. In case you didn't you can find them at www.allparts.com. I got from there stainless ones for me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 (edited) I meant *when SS frets were hard to find*. They're easy to find now (except I got mine much cheaper). Maybe when you contact companies, you should mention you need the phenolic for building a bass. If the person is a music fan, or part-time musician, they might bend the rules for you. Keep it short and friendly. Americans have an extremely short attention span and get rubbed the wrong way easily. 3/16" thick is too thin for a bass, IMO. But maybe this ebay guy has something else closer to what you need that he doesn't have listed. In case the link don't work : Item number: 190305589680 NorVa Plastics Edited May 23, 2009 by soapbarstrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 (edited) I wish I had that luck of easy finding phenolic.... Now still waiting for answer from pro plastics. And I'M writing to every company I find on the web!!! But not many have the thing especially in small quantities and shipping to Macedonia. This is getting too much... It will really be the best for a supplier to cut the pieces for me for less shipping costs, yes. I will be more than happy and grateful to find what I need just to have someone to send them to me here... When companies hear small quantities and where to ship... they do not answer at all... That is the main problem. I did not quiet understand you about stainless frets, did get them or not. In case you didn't you can find them at www.allparts.com. I got from there stainless ones for me too. Don't forget to request a list of their distributors, for those companies that wouldn't bother selling it to you, email them back and get lists of who sells and uses their products for them. These companies will have small business all around the world selling their stuff, as Woodenspoke's been saying, your best bet is to find a smaller end business or distributor that uses or sells the stuff and ask them for some. Even if you don't have a company in your town, your bound to find many different types of businesses in your country that either sell or use it, then it is just a matter of making a deal. You have to imagine that there will be several places in your country that use the stuff, even if they don't sell it, you can see if you can make a deal or put some money in on an order or just buy a small piece straight from them. And do not email them to request the stuff, in all likelihood they think your some kid whose not worth the time. Once you find a place, call them ask for someone in charge and explain how you'd like to purchase a piece, explain your deal. Again as woodenspoke said people dump emails, a major company isn't going to read beyond the first line when you need a 12" inch piece when they have companies buying 50 boards of the stuff. You need to get the lists of the distributors and start making phone calls. Emails are useless, people erase them, blow them off, getting someone on the phone makes the situation much more real and more plausible. I wish you the best of luck with your search and I think if you take the time and all the advice given here you will be successful in your search at a reasonable price. As Soap was mentioning, these things often take time and Soap probably was inquiring from a business standpoint which is 100 times more likely to get responses, so just keep trying, follow the leads you get from those lists. From the companies that said no already, email or call them back get a distributors list and keep trying. Best of luck. J Edited May 24, 2009 by jmrentis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModulusMK Posted May 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Well yeah, it's good idea to ask for a list of distributors form company, but sometimes is a problem that the the company do not replies to any question. The best is to call them however. Tthe mails I have sent were just "normal" and short with standard question do they have what I need or not and greetings at the end of message. Nothing that would bother them or something. To some companies I wrote 2 or 3 mails if they do not respond in a period as a reminder or in case they do not get the mail. As refers to my english, I'm trying to be as more as accurate, anyway it's not my primary language and I'm trying to use as best as I can. Why I'm not trying that much to find something here? It's because I know what products are being produced here of almost any type, and I've NEVER seen or heard someone to use phenolic in something except as electrical insulator for power boxes, and there color does not matter so every phenolic that is here is natural brown color and is mostly glass based. That is for sure. For most things I've searched for are associated with USA because I know there are the things I need. If haven't searched my area deeply I wouldn't go so far and to make shipping costs higher and stuff. I don't know how else to say that here in radius of 1000 miles I doubt there is the black thing (maybe someone has it at home but how can I know that). Maybe there is in Germany or near, but I don't know german and is much easier to find something in US than anywhere else. That's why my first search is there. I'll keep trying everywhere nevertheless, thanks J. Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it very much and is very encouraging for me. Soapbarstrat, I'm wainting for answer from the eBay guy too, on his page he is claiming that he can acquire many types and sizes... so we'll see. Thanks man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 You could call these guys and ask http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Online-Metal-S...y__W0QQ_armrsZ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 If only all the companies that you actually wanted something from, would see you as a business worth dealing with. But, I keep getting these damn catalogs from these Industrial warehouse safety and company uniforms, etc places. If it wasn't such a waste of paper it would be funny. I even email them to say take me off their mailing list and they keep sending the catalogs anyway. Maybe they know something I don't ? Maybe next time I spill a few drops of super-glue I would really be better off to bring out the big orange cones and warning posters ? Isolate that area of the workshop, Maybe have a couple drum barrels of some special clean-up foam on hand to really get the tragic spill under control ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModulusMK Posted May 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Westthemann, I wrote them too, although they are specialized for metals. Thanks It would be to say ideal for the companies to see me as a business worth to deal with, of course... but real things are far from that. Those catalogs you get are some king of waste of money and paper too.. yeah. If you buy something from stewmac for an example they'll keep sending you at least 4-5 next catalogs, when you have the same and even more things on their site and you have a powerful option online that you cannot have it in catalog or any other book - the power of "search" Do you in America have some holiday on May 25th or something? I heard something like that... because there is still no answer from the guys and I guess that's the reason of slow response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 If you buy something from stewmac for an example they'll keep sending you at least 4-5 next catalogs, when you have the same and even more things on their site and you have a powerful option online that you cannot have it in catalog or any other book - the power of "search" In practice it is a money making proposition...When you get catalogs in the mail you tend to peruse them when you are going to bed,using the bathroom,etc... They know that by sending the catalog,you will see things you would never even think of lookin for and say "hey,I could use that"..I only go to the website for something specific... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 In practice it is a money making proposition...When you get catalogs in the mail you tend to peruse them when you are going to bed,using the bathroom,etc... I have tried that with the MSC big blue book. Not a pleasant experience reading one on the throne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Do you in America have some holiday on May 25th or something? Yes, Memorial Day. Even though he's buried about 2 miles from here, I'm still afraid of that particular 'iron fist' Grandfather, so I guess his excuse to kick my ass from beyond the grave will just have to continue. By the way, I was checking out the 7/8" fret-board over-hang extension at the heel end of that neck on the bottom, and noticed that I had roughed up the surface of the phenolic before gluing. I guess I didn't trust the shiney smooth surface it came with and maybe it was a wise choice, since nothing has ever gone wrong with the glue joint. Looks like about 120 grit scratches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModulusMK Posted May 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Yeah, I should sand it rough before gluing.. but first to get that piece somehow in my hands... You have a pretty much of an extension there of the fretboard. I'm going to leave it longer only around 0.3"... just to have the truss rod covered a little bit. And I'm thinking of that stewmac hotrod.. but the width is non standard on purpose just to buy their products like the router bit for it. It's a good truss rod anyway. What glue will be best for use here, to bond two composites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModulusMK Posted May 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 I've found a few more companies about black phenolic, with some of them I had a little chat. All of them have enormous shipping rates no matter where they are because they are a company or distributors. For two pieces with dims 1/4"x3"x27" to ship here they ask for $114!!! That is unreal!!! My friend bought whole guitar from US with $90 shipping. For these pieces shouldn't be more than about $20-30. Just some regular person is needed to ship them via regular post office. Companies use FedEx, DHL, UPS and all other expensive shipping options... Still waiting for answer from the eBay guy... his feedback there is 100% positive about everything and communication too. I don't know why he is still not responding.... If he has a piece maybe he would like to ship via regular post office.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Curious - is the phenolic we're talking about here the same material used for turret and eyelet boards on tube amps, and bobbins on guitar pickups, only thicker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModulusMK Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Curious - is the phenolic we're talking about here the same material used for turret and eyelet boards on tube amps, and bobbins on guitar pickups, only thicker? I do not know what kind of and if phenolic is used there.. for bobbins I think is a regular plastic. For fretboard is best to use XX or XXX grade, both are paper based ones. That is what I'm looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 If you are learning one thing from this search, you now know a product you could manufacture in your portion of the world that is hard to get. I know there are a lot of people who buy from America, that are located somewhere in the orient. They some how find people/companies whose business is nothing but re-shipping items. Somehow it ends up being fairly cheap. I had one person ask about it for an eBay item, but I knew nothing about it. A little research in that direction might help some, not sure how much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModulusMK Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) I know there are a lot of people who buy from America, that are located somewhere in the orient. They some how find people/companies whose business is nothing but re-shipping items. Somehow it ends up being fairly cheap. That's exactly what I'm looking for! A re-shipping of items, but out of eBay it's almost impossible to find someone. Those whose business is nothing and would like to earn money in every way and do almost everything, hardly you can reach or find them over internet. Those whose business is something are using the same enormously high priced shipping methods. Some of those I've found on eBay do not have black, some are not responding... and are only a few, to say 2 or 3 members! I've searched everything that came up at my mind... sometimes I spend 5-6 hours a day in search only. I really don't know what will I do... I'm stuck on one point almost a year. Damn Edited May 27, 2009 by ModulusMK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 If I were you I would start lying. Use another email address contact the Bass company you are duplicating the bass from who you have already tried to contact. Tell them you are a repair person North of Greece be vague at first, and you need to repair one of their bases that was damaged by its owner. Make up some sort of fret board damage like fire or something really bad. Ask them about obtaining a new replacement fretboard and how to remove the old one just to make it look good. If they balk about shipping you a replacement tell then the round trip shipping for the whole bass would be prohibitive for the owner. Also let them know you have tried every resource for finding the replacement Phenolic material locally with no luck. Now they have an obligation to help you. Repeated emails if they do not respond. Then call them if they still dont respond. I do not think you will get a good deal this way as it will most likely be radiused, slotted and tapered which will cost you. But what else do you have? The other solution is to use ebony with an epoxy finish and suffer with the fact only you would know its not phenolic. I got nothing else except plan a vacation to the states, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 I'm going to leave it longer only around 0.3"... just to have the truss rod covered a little bit. And I'm thinking of that stewmac hotrod.. but the width is non standard on purpose just to buy their products like the router bit for it. Did Modulus start using truss-rods at some point ? I'm only "familiar" with Modulus necks with no truss-rod. And if they did start using truss-rods, is it like Stew's 2 way ? Just saying, 'cause if you're trying to copy a certain neck for a certain sound (being more so in this case, since a graphite/phenolic combo would be quite consistent from one neck to another , unlike wooden necks), then you could be changing how the neck will make the instrument sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Curious - is the phenolic we're talking about here the same material used for turret and eyelet boards on tube amps, and bobbins on guitar pickups, only thicker? I do not know what kind of and if phenolic is used there.. for bobbins I think is a regular plastic. For fretboard is best to use XX or XXX grade, both are paper based ones. That is what I'm looking for. Not plastic - I mean traditional fender-style bobbins, two pieces of material held together by the magnets press through them. Uh, I think "forbon" is the trade name of the material used here. I believe it's a vulcanized fiber material? I think that both Forbon and Garolite is also used on tube amp turret boards. Depends on whose doing it. I'm not familiar enough with these materials to say if they're the same thing. The thickness are usually much thinner in these applications than what you're looking for. (I assume you're looking for something like a quarter inch thick?) I guess my thought was that if this is the same material boutique amp or pickup builders are using in their hand-wired stuff, one of them may be able to help you get a sheet - you'd probably still need to get a whole sheet, but a larger boutique company, or a distributor like Hoffman amps or Mojotone that sells these types of materials for the hobbiest market probably already has contacts with the manufacturers if they're ordering large quantities. They may be able to add a thick sheet that suits your purposes onto their regular order of the thin stuff, and not have to deal with minimum quantities like you do, since they already order regularly from these companies. Heck, even if the materials I'm thinking of are different than what you're looking for, if they come from the same places, they may be able to help you. Just another thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 I know there are a lot of people who buy from America, that are located somewhere in the orient. They some how find people/companies whose business is nothing but re-shipping items. Somehow it ends up being fairly cheap. That is a fantasy if you're talking just shipping one item. If you're a business with a shipping account, you can get a price break - but its not that much. International shipping is what it is. Obviously you can get a break if you're shipping huge quantities of stuff by surface freight (i.e. boat on the ocean) if you want to wait 2-3 months. Then you might be able to find someone to toss your fretboard in with their 100 metric tons of dog food (or whatever). Have you tried Moses graphite? I am fairly sure you can get carbon fiber fretboards from them - not quite phenolic, but could be the next best option short of ebony. http://www.mosesgraphite.com/orderinfo.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModulusMK Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 If I were you I would start lying. Use another email address contact the Bass company you are duplicating the bass from who you have already tried to contact. Tell them you are a repair person North of Greece be vague at first, and you need to repair one of their bases that was damaged by its owner. Haha man, you've made me laugh (in positive way, it's just interesting that what you're saying ). I could do all of that yeah, but at Modulus there are wise guys. They would ask me for a serial number of the bass (I can find one somewhere on web), after that they're going to check with their database who bought the bass and is it bought new or it is a second hand (if it is a second hand you can forget about everything) and are going to call the guy that has the bass with that serial number to make sure is it everything as I'm telling them . Unfortunately no one here neither close or far of me has a Modulus for me to know the guy to make the lie more real... Modulus started to use truss rod since the first half/middle of the '90. They use 2 way adjustment similiar if not the same as stew's, for upbow and backbow. And it is quiet consistent that carbon/phenolic combo from one neck to another and it sounds awesome to my ears. J.pierce, I'll try contacting those companies as well and see what are they using and if could they help me. I need a quarter inch thickness, yeah. Also I contacted Moses Graphite although they use graphite boards instead of phenolic. They replied that at the moment they do not have anything for regular bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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