killemall8 Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Well, I have not messed with this conversion varnish since. Now, it is warm enough to spray it again. So i took a chance, and mixed some up today... hoping it woudl work this time. I wiped EVERYTHIGN down with Xylene. sprayed it thru my gun before i added it, and everything. Wiped the surface i was going to spray. Emptied my Compressor tank. AND THE RESULT IS!!!! ..... The same... Absolutely no difference. It still just looks like it is fisheyeing all over. This is really killing me... having a 100$ gallon of clear you cant use is one thing.. But having absolutely no idea why it wont work is anohter. Any other ideas of what it cuold be? I just cant see what would be causing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I don't know.I mixed up a good 20 batches and have never had any issue.I used preval sprayers,so my gut feeling is that your equipment is contaminated. Also...temperature must be above 60 degrees for that finish...why do I get the feeling it is colder than that in New Mexico right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted March 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I don't know.I mixed up a good 20 batches and have never had any issue.I used preval sprayers,so my gut feeling is that your equipment is contaminated. Also...temperature must be above 60 degrees for that finish...why do I get the feeling it is colder than that in New Mexico right now? Nope, it is 70* today. That is the only reason i took it out again today. I keep thinking my spray gun is the problem too, but I even used a brand new one, never had anything sprayed thru it but xylene to clean it out first... same exact thing. When it first is sprayed, in a super light coat, It looks just like little air bubbles. But when you spray it thicker, it just looks like you sprayed it on a surface that was sprayed with wd 40 or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Intellicast shows your current temperature at barely 60 right now... http://www.intellicast.com/National/Temper...cation=USNM0004 Hell..we are only 67 right now in Austin.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted March 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 hmm... one of them is off... Weather.com has me at 65*, and a high of 71. It was 57* here accordign to weather.com at 11AM this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I would try spraying a super-thin coat of shellac as a first coat, let it dry, lightly scuff sand it, then try your conversion finish. ...One coat, ...really thin, ...let it dry good, ...-really- light scuff sand. Catch me up with what you're spraying, are you spraying your Bubinga veneered Explorers's? Have you tried spraying a totally different kind of wood/scrap piece to see if it's the guitar or the finish yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted March 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I am using shirwin williams conversion varnish. I have tried spraying it on every bit if scrap wood i have. mahogany, maple, pine, walnut, cherry, you name it. It does not act any different at all on any different woods. Does the exact same thign no matter what you spray it on. Even on plastic or aluminum. It is definitely something with the finish itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 So don't use it.It works great for me and the other guys,but maybe your elevation and low humidity is a problem or something. I don't know your problem...I just can't imagine that the finish is to blame,since iit has such great word of mouth everywhere. Every time i buy a gallon at least one person in the store has to tell me how great it is...cabinet makers,mostly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted March 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I know wes, it hs a great rep. But i cant let it go. I dont even care that i cant use it... It is just killing me that i cant figure what the heck is causing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted March 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Oh yeah, i forgot, There was a real reason i wanted to try it again. It wanted to try it again becuase I can tint this with those Stew mac Dyes. I hate lacquer, and there are not really any other types of finishes i can tint, so thats why i wanted to use this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 This is just troubleshooting 101, no reason to give up yet. Have you tried mixing a little bit and brushing it on something? If it's not the wood, then it's coming down to product vs. gun. I know you're using a new gun, but I would like to eliminate the gun alltogether for the time being, maybe it's something with the atomization, maybe a nozzle or tip vs. viscosity issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted March 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 I will try brushing some. What i have thought too, is an atomization problem, since when i spray a light coat, there are a ton of little bubbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Try using a whole different compressor. Maybe some sort of machine oil mixing in w/ what you are spraying? You have to systematically knock out potential causes, starting with the simplest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted March 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I dotn really have access to another air compressor. I have to admit, IT could be it, but I ruled it out because ive sprayed like 5 different clears with that gun and compressor, and it never did it with any of them but this. but It is still a possibility. I just dotn have another compressor to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffD Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 With the Sherwin-Wiliams conversion varnish I have used you must fist use the matching vinyl sealer underneath it. Is this the case with the product your using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted March 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 With the Sherwin-Wiliams conversion varnish I have used you must fist use the matching vinyl sealer underneath it. Is this the case with the product your using? It specifies you can use the varnish itself thinned 25% to use as a sealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 With the Sherwin-Wiliams conversion varnish I have used you must fist use the matching vinyl sealer underneath it. Is this the case with the product your using? No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted March 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Well guys, I guess i was wrong... I tried a different gun AGAIN. And it worked... But only without the filter. I think what is happening is its melting the filter or something, and getting contaminated from that. that Xylene melts everything. Anyway, I tried it 3 different times with this gun and no filter, and it seems to be pretty consistent now. sprays GREAT. I knew It had to be something little like that. Just hope it doesn't go back to be contaminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 That would surprise me if it is melting the filter, since they should be made of solvent resistant plastics. I'm not saying your wrong, just surprised. I can think of two ways to test it though. First, pour some Xylene in a jar and drop a filter in for several minutes and see if it is soft when you pull it out. Being straight Xylene I would think it might be, but if it is still solid in straight Xylene, then I doubt it is melting when mixed with the varnish. Second, mix a small batch of varnish like you would to spray and then drop a filter in and let it sit a few hours, just don't let the varnish cure. See if it seems softer after that. Not exactly scientific, but might be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 The catalyst in that finish is very caustic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 That explains a lot. I forgot that it is an acid catalyst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supplebanana Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 That explains a lot. I forgot that it is an acid catalyst. caustic is applied to alkalines not acids (as in Caustic Soda - Sodium Hydroxide NaOH) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrosive Terms The word 'corrosion' is derived from the Latin verb corrodere which means 'to gnaw' indicating how these substances seem to 'gnaw' their way through the flesh. Sometimes the word 'caustic' is used as a synonym, but by convention 'caustic' generally refers only to strong bases, particularly alkalis, and not to acids, oxidizers, or other non-alkaline corrosives. The term 'acid' is often used imprecisely for all corrosives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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