Our Souls inc. Posted March 9, 2010 Report Posted March 9, 2010 just buy these.... http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supp...amp;tgtiid=3881 Quote
Johnny Foreigner Posted March 9, 2010 Report Posted March 9, 2010 just buy these.... http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supp...amp;tgtiid=3881 while we're kind of on the subject, does anyone have any experience using the stewmac gun (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supplies/Equipment:_Spray_equipment/Spray_Guns.html)? I assume it sucks compared to the ones that people always recommend (techline?) but I'd love to know why (if that's not too annoying) cheers tom Quote
supplebanana Posted March 9, 2010 Report Posted March 9, 2010 If your looking to do sunburst, i have done so with an airbrush in the past. If you have a small compressor, airbrushes are really cheap. If you do not have one, i found these items on amazon... Depending on what your willing to spend to get decent finishes. I have not used these particular systems nor have i even seen them.. But i just did a quick search, and the reviews seem decent, and figured id share it with you. http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Purpose-Siphon...5289&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/PAASCHE-AIRBRUSH-Qui...5289&sr=8-5 Like 'spoke says - an airbrush is fine for s/bursts & stains but i wouldn't try using it for clearcoating. plus these compressors run constantly - thats why they make them "quiet" - but the other side of the coin is they get VERY hot after a while. another option is large gas bottles such as used for Scuba etc. or like bars use for CO2, you don't need compressed air to spray - i know guys who use this method but use either CO2 or N2. When I used to go diving i'd get my bottle (17ltr) filled to 300bar for ~£2 - and the air was cleaned & dried (for those that want to work it out to PSi = 300x15=4500psi !!!) Quote
Drak Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 while we're kind of on the subject, does anyone have any experience using the stewmac gun That just looks like your standard Campbell-Hausfeld gun, (also available at Home Depot) I use them all the time, they're fine for pretty much any standard spray functions. The only reason you'd need a REAL quality gun is if YOU'RE that talented to take advantage of it's options, which usually is just a finer tip (for very fine work) and higher quality parts (that don't corrode as fast). Besides one fancy gun I do have, I use those C-H guns all the time, they're fine guns, break down easy, clean easy, go back together easy, shoot easy. Quote
Woodenspoke Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 while we're kind of on the subject, does anyone have any experience using the stewmac gun That just looks like your standard Campbell-Hausfeld gun, (also available at Home Depot) I use them all the time, they're fine for pretty much any standard spray functions. The only reason you'd need a REAL quality gun is if YOU'RE that talented to take advantage of it's options, which usually is just a finer tip (for very fine work) and higher quality parts (that don't corrode as fast). Besides one fancy gun I do have, I use those C-H guns all the time, they're fine guns, break down easy, clean easy, go back together easy, shoot easy. I always though the better gun helped me because I had little spraying talent to begin with..Its funny how we all see things differently... Quote
Tim37 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 unless your that serious about being vintage correct, i would stay away frome a syphon feed gun. go with a gravity feed even if its a cheap one. Quote
Woodenspoke Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 unless your that serious about being vintage correct, i would stay away frome a syphon feed gun. go with a gravity feed even if its a cheap one. How would you even be able to tell if a finish was sprayed vintage correct. Most likely they used a large pot and not a small quart jar to spray hundreds of instruments. they most likey still do use pots only with finish saving heads like HVLP ot LVLP. Or a robot.. If I had to say a cheap syphon feed gun is worth it it may be.. I have used the Critter which uses a mason jar and it worked fine, even better than the cheap HVLP from Grizzly I still have. But its not perfect either. the syphon may work better because the parts needed to make it work are less costly and can be made to less exacting specs. Just a thought.. The main reason not to use a syphon gun is it needs lots of air and we are back to the issue we have here air.. Quote
Tim37 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 yeah you cant really tell in the end but i think most people agree that a gravity feed its a little easier to control. btw do they even spray modernt production guitars? that finish is so thick i just cant see spraying it but i dont know how else they would get it on there. Quote
avengers63 Posted March 10, 2010 Author Report Posted March 10, 2010 that finish is so thick i just cant see spraying it but i dont know how else they would get it on there. Dip it in a vat 15 times. Quote
Drak Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 unless your that serious about being vintage correct, i would stay away from a syphon feed gun. go with a gravity feed even if its a cheap one. yeah you cant really tell in the end but i think most people agree that a gravity feed its a little easier to control. btw do they even spray modern production guitars? that finish is so thick i just cant see spraying it but i dont know how else they would get it on there. Tim, what gun do you use? I usually only give recommendations/suggestions based on personal experiences, but I don't see you saying that you actually use a gravity feed gun yourself anywhere, or telling about your personal experiences with either one...I'm slightly confused. There's not a thing wrong with the guns on those pages, I can verify to their good use and can show many guitars shot with them, if you're going to 'down' them, I would hope you have some personal experience with them to base your recommendations on? Quote
Tim37 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 on the od ball ocation that i do spray something (i mostly have a friend that sprays stuff for me) one of those cheap harbor frieght guns. Quote
westhemann Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 btw do they even spray modernt production guitars? that finish is so thick i just cant see spraying it but i dont know how else they would get it on there. They charge the paint to one polarity,and they charge the guitars to another...then they spray,and the magnetism holds the paint on and keeps it from running at the thickness they use. Or something like that...I don't recall the exact specifics. Quote
Cali-Blues Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 They charge the paint to one polarity,and they charge the guitars to another...then they spray,and the magnetism holds the paint on and keeps it from running at the thickness they use. I thought they could only do that for powder-coating metal. I didn't think the wood would hold a charge, its a cool concept though. Quote
Drak Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 on the od ball ocation that i do spray something (i mostly have a friend that sprays stuff for me) one of those cheap harbor frieght guns. Now I'm really confused... how can you give someone advice on which gun to buy then? Quote
verhoevenc Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Lacquers eat through plastic... Chris Quote
Tim37 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Now I'm really confused... how can you give someone advice on which gun to buy then? i didnt give then advice on what gun to buy i gave my opinion on what type of gun to buy. i have used both types granted not on guitars but i have used them both on cars or car parts. and i think the gravity feed is easier to use. but spoke did make a good point about compressor size. personaly i dont have a compressor at my home i go to my friends body shop ususaly he tells me to just leave it there and he will get to it in a day or so. so yeah i dont spray much any more and to be honest im kinda glad i dont im not the best painter in the world but when i do i use a gravity feed gun from harbor frieght. Quote
perhellion Posted March 11, 2010 Report Posted March 11, 2010 As another option, I've seen some cool looking sunbursts done with nothing sprayed at all (until topcoat). You only need dye and/or stain and cloth. All the colors can be applied and blended by rubbing with cloth. Granted, it looked like patience and practice would be needed, but they are free. After all, a sunburst finish was originally designed to look like a worn french polish on a violin -- which is applied by rubbing with cloth. Quote
supplebanana Posted March 11, 2010 Report Posted March 11, 2010 They charge the paint to one polarity,and they charge the guitars to another...then they spray,and the magnetism holds the paint on and keeps it from running at the thickness they use. I thought they could only do that for powder-coating metal. I didn't think the wood would hold a charge, its a cool concept though. wood will hold charge. it's mostly carbon & water (as are we) & both are capable of holding charge - albeit not as much as other substances - even air will hold charge. remember that charge is static - they basically connect the guitar up to the antenna of an ioniser & connect the gun up to the other pole. the charged particles will try to attract to each other thus neutralising the charge. but yes it's a similar process to the powder coating except the powder coat is then heated to reflow it. Quote
chops1983 Posted March 11, 2010 Report Posted March 11, 2010 I have a Stew Mac gun. I bought it thinking it was special for guitars, but it is just a production sized syphon gun. Now, would i recommend one...it sprays good, has all the different adjustments,cleans well and will do the job great depending on your skill at spraying. But..., i got talking to a fella at the paint shop where i just bought my last batch of 2k poly and he recommend for spraying guitars, a small gravity feed gun(touch up gun i think he called it) which comes with a 100ml tank, but, you can also attach the measuring cup which has all the mix ratios printed on the side. Why did he recommend this? Because the size of the objects we are spraying are small, you can mix up smaller amounts of paint and have less waste. 2k is going to go off even in a sealed container once mixed, so with my production gun i have to mix up around 150-200ml just so it will spray smoothly usually leaving some left over paint. Fine for nitro though as you can leave it in the sealed gun overnight for your next spray session or, tranfer it back to a spare can. As for asking and giving advice, take what you want from posts, when i read this forum i skip over so much BS and take all the useful parts. If someone like Drak is giving finishing advice, i would be listening. I basically think the original question has been answered. I will agree that really Pro jobs aren't sprayed with hand sprayers though, guns will always offer better finishes, and yes that does come from experience. John, if you find a decent cheap setup, make sure you post your findings for other people on the forum who are in the same mindset. Cheers Chad. Quote
Drak Posted March 11, 2010 Report Posted March 11, 2010 I completely agree that to shoot guitars, the large quart sized guns are unnecessary, I've never owned one and won't ever need one. The smaller gun, known as a door-jamb gun or touch-up gun is the perfect size to shoot most guitars IMO. If you want to use a quart gun, you certainly can, and a lot of people do, there's nothing wrong with using them either, but I just don't find a need to have one. And at one time (and I have the pics to show), I was shooting about 15 guitars all at the same time, so I certainly could have used a quart gun then, but the door-jamb was perfectly sufficient, I just had to mix more batches, which is no big deal to me. When I'm shooting, it only takes about 3 minutes to mix a batch and keep on truckin'. If I'm working with a quantity so small that it's too small for a door-jamb gun, or shooting a very detailed burst pattern, then it's time to break out the airbrush, and that's not all that often. Both siphon feed and gravity feeds are great guns, it really comes down to personal preference I think, I've just been using siphon feeds for so long I've grown very used to them, and I can go buy one any day of the week from Home Depot for $35.00, take it home and be spraying in 5 minutes, so availability also plays a part for me I guess, I'm perfectly comfortable using them, they work just fine, and I used to shoot catalyzed lacquer through them. As well, if I'm shooting a burst and it's hanging, I'll be shooting from a lot of different angles, from the top down, from the bottom up, and every angle in between, that gun is moving around a lot, and I like the lower 'center of gravity' feeling I get from the siphon feed gun, it won't clog up unless I tilt it so far over that I clog up the airhole, which is a pretty extreme angle, and even if I do that, a guitar string thru the hole puts me back in business in 30 seconds, and I always have that guitar string handy near the compressor at all times. The ONLY reason I have the other gun (a Sharpe) is because it has a finer tip, that's it, so my bases are pretty much all covered between an airbrush, a regular C-H pint gun w/ standard tip (more product, good for clear coats), and the Sharpe with a fine tip (for semi-detailed burst jobs). I could live without the Sharpe if I had to and just use that old $35.00 Home Depot gun all day long and be perfectly happy with it, it definitely sees the majority of shoot time, is the workhorse gun for me, shoots easy, cleans easy, and re-assembles easy. I think my point here is that you don't need to overthink this unless you're using some specialty finish, overthink design and concepts and deployment of ideas, where it's worth your time to overthink it, ...and let the easy parts remain easy. I just don't see any reason to make things more difficult for yourself than you need to, I'm all about making things easier, not harder. Quote
Woodenspoke Posted March 11, 2010 Report Posted March 11, 2010 You can mix up smaller amounts in any sized gun so saving paint with a smaller gun is nonsense.. But A touch up gun is generally less expensive. I can get quite a few coats from half a quart in a quart container. I only splurged for the quart because I though I may need that size to do auto body work I know I dont need that size for a guitar.. I have a kid coming of age soon so... Sometimes you have to look into the future with your crystal ball when buying any tool. Quote
ihocky2 Posted March 11, 2010 Report Posted March 11, 2010 The only draw back I have with siphon guns is that you never use all of the paint. I have only one siphon gun, and I get the same results from that or my gravity feeds. I personally like the mini-guns, they are lighter, easier to handle, and I only ever need a few ounces of paint at a time. I can do a full 3 coat set with 4 ounces and be able to do two guitars at once with it. Unless I was turning out work like Perry, I have no need for a quart size cup. Quote
Drak Posted March 11, 2010 Report Posted March 11, 2010 The only draw back I have with siphon guns is that you never use all of the paint. I have only one siphon gun, and I get the same results from that or my gravity feeds. I'm reading this a little sideways I think, it sounds to me like you're saying you don't like the BIG guns (quart) because you don't use all the product, which I agree with. But what you SAID is that you don't like siphon guns for that reason, but gravity or siphon shouldn't really make a difference, it's the size of the gun you're referring to, right? My siphon guns are pint guns, not quart guns. Unless I honestly don't understand what you're really trying to say and need some clarification... Quote
chops1983 Posted March 11, 2010 Report Posted March 11, 2010 You can mix up smaller amounts in any sized gun so saving paint with a smaller gun is nonsense.. But Yep, you can mix up smaller amounts with any gun, but what i was saying is when my quart sized syphon gun gets down to, say the last 50-100ml it doesn't spray consistently when tilted at an angle (Sorry my bad, I should have clarified that a bit better). Its fine for nitro as i mix up 500ml each time and then store it after ive sprayed, but i would hate to waste 50-100ml of 2k at the end of each spraying session, it isn't cheap stuff over here. That's why i was recommended a touch up gravity fed gun for spraying guitars because you can use every last drop. Just passing on some advice i was given by a person in the spraying industry to the fella who asked about the Stew Mac guns. Chad. Quote
Woodenspoke Posted March 11, 2010 Report Posted March 11, 2010 Not that I had really asked but: it would not matter anyway if it was a small suction feed lower cup it will leave some paint. really I dont see those guns for sale much anymore. I had an HVLP bottom dweller and it was crappy. the only pro guns I see like that use pots and I will assume they also leave paint. What are we really talking about a half a coat on a guitar. If its a single part product just pore it back into the can Quote
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