Roller Nut Replacement?

[~Maxx]

Hi folks. Hoping someone can help me out with this, as I haven't found much in the way of useful info on the net...

I want to replace the nut pictured below (on my '89 Jap/Am Strat) with a new roller nut. I'm really interested in the LSR nuts, but from the info I've read they're designed for 8 or 9ga. strings. However I use 10's with a 20ga. wound G, so I'm not sure if the LSR will be a possibility for me. As you can see in the pic below I had to file away the slot to make it work with my strings. Obviously I don't want to have to do this again. Any chance the LSR will work for me? Or do I just need to forget about rollers all together?

Thanks!

[psw]

The new LSR's are smaller but come with a plastic adapter to suit these older styles. They also have these dampening pads behind the ball rollers btw, not that bar behind to maintain pressure that the old ones had. I use a 10-42 stand gauge string with unwound third and they work great, but I seriously doubt they would be suitable with a wound g like that. I'd anticipate some eating away at the dampening pad perhaps and with the tiny balls that are used, a mod like you have done is probably out of the question.

Is there any reason that you seek to replace this one that you have modded? I believe you can get spares for them like the rollers if the thing is starting to wear out.

[~Maxx]

Is there any reason that you seek to replace this one that you have modded? I believe you can get spares for them like the rollers if the thing is starting to wear out.

Thanks for the info psw. My reason for replacing this nut is purely cosmetic. The "mod" I performed was more an act of desperation than a modification. If you could see it in person it is quite sloppy. Also I'm switching all the hardware with black replacements. I suppose if I could find a black replacement for this model I wouldn't have a problem filing it down again.

Is anyone familiar with the Wilkinson rollers? (I think that's what they're called) I have one in my tool box, but the rollers slide back and forth on the axis slightly, so it allows the string to move and makes a "ping" when I bend. Are these just badly designed? Or might I have better luck if I order a new one?

Thanks again for any advice...

[psw]

I'm not sure what you mean by the wilkinson rollers...these things were designed by wilkinson I believe.

I know there are a bunch of different roller kinds of things...I've even tried to make my own.

I am building an LP with khaler and came up with all kinds of plans that might work with this format, but in the end the locking nut, even though I don't particularly like this format, is the most practical solution.

Such heavy strings are tricky with trems generally. If the current pods you have done are working, well I'd stick to it. Maybe carefully neaten up the slot with a file, perhaps mask the slots and roller parst and paint the thing if you are going black...this could disguise the slot anyway.

Looking at my LSR, I can see that the slot could be cut easier and so neater than this older version...but I am not sure that the G strings wouldn't sit a little proud or pop out or something...it would be a tricky one.

If into fairly extreme trem thing, I'd be looking into a locking nut scenario. But if this is working, I'd keep it than have to modify yet a new one.

[~Maxx]

Again - thank you psw. I've attached a pic of the "Wilkinson" (?) nut. This is identical to the one I have in my tool box. It's a pretty simple design, and it would certainly accommodate my strings as far as I can tell (though it is a bit taller, so I'd have to shave down the end of the neck a bit). After examining it more closely I've noticed that the grooves in mine are the same width for each string. So while my G would sit nicely, the B and high E seem to slide around inside the groove (add that to the movement of the loose roller - ugh). The more I look at it the more I have trouble believing that anyone could expect this to work on any guitar. Unless, as I said, I've gotten a hold of a lemon. I see these things all over the net, in fact - so someone must be buying them.

Anyway... I appreciate your thoughts psw. I'm thinking I might just end up spray painting it for now so it doesn't stick out amongst the new hardware. I have a feeling I'm going to end up going with a more traditional graphite or graphtech nut.

[psw]

Yep, I've seen them for sale, was too dubious to buy them. With a conventional guitar roller nuts always need routing forward of the usual nut slot so the mods are permanent...but then I use conventional unwound G strings so it isn't a problem...why do you favour that set, do you tune low? Do you combine these with locking tuners and all?

The other thing is that with such a nut you are going to need some kind of downward pressure on a six in line so string trees, possibly damping as well like the new LSR's.

Your current set up for your choice of strings is probably as good as you are going to get.

For prototyping such things I thought of using string ball ends as the rollers...use some piano wire as the axle through them all...as the headstock on say my LP is splayed out, I considered another set to pull straight across the nut, then feed to the side to each tuner, doubling as a string tree/dampener...but really, far too much work compared to just locking the things down.

good luck with what you choose to do, but if the nut is working for you, I'd consider painting the thing for a color change perhaps...there's hardly going to be much wear on the thing.

Here's a pic of the LSR on my blueteleful telecaster project...

you can see with staggered locking tuners there are no string trees, the grove forward of the balls in the nut is very small...the black bits behind are a kind of foam pad to dampen vibrations behind the nut. This came with a black plastic shelf to adapt this new LSR to the larger format type you have.

Realistically, if the rollers work well with a wound D string (as it does) I don't really see a problem with a wound G...but it really doesn't seem to be designed for that. as I say, 10-42 seems to be ideal which happens to be the set I use. Not had any problems with it, but I have heard some suggest wear or loosing those tiny balls...I find that hard to believe with proper care...but you never know!

[~Maxx]

why do you favour that set, do you tune low? Do you combine these with locking tuners and all?

I'm generally tuned standard (though I prefer a half step down when I can get away with it) - and, yes, I have the Sperzel locking tuners at the moment. Though I have a set of staggered "EZ Lock" tuners which I'm going to replace them with. My strings are Ernie Ball Earthwoods. These days they're sold strictly as acoustic strings, but when I first started buying them (in the early or mid 1990's) they were labled as "acoustic/electric" strings. I picked them up on a whim just to try something new, and found that I really liked them. I play a lot of blues oriented stuff, and when doing rhythmic things in the open A position I like that you don't have such an overly "bright" difference between the open A string and the octave on the G. At the same time the G is still light enough that it can be bent fairly easily when playing leads. I find it a bit more diverse in the sense that there's quite a noticeable tonal difference between bending a note on the wound G and bending the same note on the B.

For prototyping such things I thought of using string ball ends as the rollers...use some piano wire as the axle through them all...as the headstock on say my LP is splayed out, I considered another set to pull straight across the nut, then feed to the side to each tuner, doubling as a string tree/dampener.

Pardon me for saying so, but that just sounds like a darned interesting idea!

Here's a pic of the LSR on my blueteleful telecaster project...

Thanks for rubbing it in! Just kidding... I really dig the look of them though. Nice clean picture too! I wish my camera could do that (though it could be an operator error). I never can get them clear for some reason. Thanks for sharing!

Realistically, if the rollers work well with a wound D string (as it does) I don't really see a problem with a wound G...but it really doesn't seem to be designed for that. as I say, 10-42 seems to be ideal which happens to be the set I use.

You could be right. They may indeed work just fine. I have my doubts though. My strings are 10-50 (10, 14, 20, 28, 40, 50 respectively), and I always have to struggle to get the low E and A in the slot of my current nut. The strings may fit, but they may also be tight enough to bind up the rollers rendering them ineffective.

For now, at least, I'm going to heed your wisdom and stick with what I have. Maybe someday I can find a true black replacement of the same design and attempt a better mod. Or perhaps I'll decide that these strings just aren't worth the hassle anymore!

Thanks again!

[~Maxx]

I can't believe it! I actually found one for sale! I really didn't think you could buy these any more...

Fender/Wilkinson Roller Nut

[ihocky2]

Is there any reason other than the color change that you are ditching the Sperzels? I've used the Wilkinson EZ-Lok and don't have much to say good about them. They do not truly lock down the strings and I find are more of a pain to string up. I would rather go with non-locking tuners instead of the Wilkson's again.

I noticed that PSW mentioned looking into a locking nut, but remember you need to be able to fine tune the strings after they are locked down. So you need a bridge with micro tuners on them, which Strat style Trems don't.

[~Maxx]

Is there any reason other than the color change that you are ditching the Sperzels? I've used the Wilkinson EZ-Lok and don't have much to say good about them. They do not truly lock down the strings and I find are more of a pain to string up. I would rather go with non-locking tuners instead of the Wilkson's again.

I noticed that PSW mentioned looking into a locking nut, but remember you need to be able to fine tune the strings after they are locked down. So you need a bridge with micro tuners on them, which Strat style Trems don't.

The EZ Locks were on a parts guitar I bought off a friend a few years ago. I've never actually used them before, but figured since I had them lying around I might as well put them to use. It just hit me today, though, that I'm going to have to run the screw holes for these, and I don't think they'll cover the holes from the Sperzels. So I think I'm going to go ahead and order new black Sperzels for it.

I won't be using a locking nut. I really thought about switching to a Floyd, but decided that I didn't want to mess with the mod. I just hope I can get away with painting this Wilk/Fender nut. If that doesn't work I'm just going to take it in and have a graphite nut cut for it. I started this guitar several years ago, and am determined to get it done this summer!

I appreciate the input about the tuners.

[psw]

All good...

Are those easy lock the two hole thingies? I used to string up like this without the two holes, but staggered heights are good. On my tele and my strat (both squiers) I switched to real fender locking staggered schallers i think they are (have the fender F on the bak of the wheel) and have been very impressed.

I bought a set though for my new LP project but that will have a locking nut so tuner quality isn't important, but then it has a khaler on it so fine tuners are not a problem. That tele has also a khaler so, it needs the locking tuners and LSR but has remarkable tuning stability.

Really, if you don't go nuts with a trem, even a standard strat can be set up to work fine. I thought that the style you have may still be available as Jeff Beck used them long over they were superseded by the newer LSRs and may still do. My strat has a normal nut and stays in tune well with a standard trem. Not keen on floyds at all and way to much hassle, wouldn't really suit your heavy gauge strings either I suspect.

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Good for you for picking a string set that makes the sound you want. Bronze wound strings are a bit weird with magnetic pickups (the bronze wrap is not magnetic) but if they make the sound you like. I have a mag pickup I used to put in an old acoustic with a similar set and it made the best blues sound...glad you reminded me...I might have a use for that combo in the near future.

I have some sets of 10-52's that I wanted to switch too...unwound third though and nickel, but they simply wont fit in the kahlers or work properly. I had kind of hoped to put them in the LP perhaps and lower the tuning to D for variety and almost baritone kind of sound.

I voice most of my chords in the middle strings d,g,b and like the tonal difference between the wound and unwound strings...but I use a very clean tone and technique...different kind of thing.

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For more pics of my telecaster project...see this thread...Blueteleful Telecaster Project

It's the guitar I have been playing now for everything...but I have the feeling I need a change lately and will have to finish some projects.

In taking pictures, I have been getting into a bit of photography lately, but the equipment is nothing fancy. This camera was stolen last year so slightly upgraded, but a low end fuji digital. What I found with taking pics and looking at pics is that a little care can go a long way to getting something good. Notice, I laid out a towel on the floor for the guitar to lie on...this gives a good plain background that doesn't distract for the guitar...hides the bad carpet at that house and background stuff that distracts.

I used the natural overhead light bulb, sometimes an ordinary desk lamp can be good...then make sure the camera is set to flash suppression. The older fuij had a "baby setting" that stopped the flash and maybe enhanced skin tones. This and the light accounts for that honey tone to the neck...in reality it is still a lot paler.

So, not really the camera or the operator, just a little care seems to make all the difference...a flash always seems to wash things out a lot.

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If others are interested in the LSR thing, they are great but it was a little tricky fitting it to the squiers...the necks are ever so slimmer so there is a bit that slightly overhands on either side. They do take a little routing (I used a dremel) and a conventional nut can't replace it, so you want to be sure...for most a graphite nut would be fine. I really like though that they are screwed on and so effectively height adjustable with little shims...easy to get a professional looking and feeling set up with the things if they suit the instrument.

I'm surprised that the really low strings don't bind, these things tend to assume a standard to light gauge generally.

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I have gone through periods of inventing things as many here will know. Like minded people might think to collect those ball ends from string changes. They could be useful, especially for little guide wheels for strings. For a nut, you'd have to do something to stop the lighter strings rattling around...for the LP thing though, I had the idea of an elaborate truss rod cover with these wheels on it so the strings would pull straight over the nut and not bind to the sides...bit like roller string trees on their side. I dare say though you could modify the things, mount them in a drill and spin them holding a file to make more of a V groove or something. The LSR though will be better for the right guitar and cheaper and easier in the long run...so, if they work...!!