Neck Material Choices

[Fowl2338]

I'm looking to build an SG or a Les Paul type.

I know SG's tend to be neck heavy, so assuming I go with that body style, what would be a good choice for the material.

I want something very warm.

Body: Limba or Sapele

Fingerboard: Pau Ferro

[avengers63]

If you can find a nice piece of African mahogany, it's pretty light. Limba or sapele aren't particularly heavy either. Some folks have had luck with poplar, so long as you use c/f rods for extra strength. If you use c/f rods, soft maple becomes an option.

[B. Aaron]

Soft or Red maple (Acer rubrum) is actually about 15% stiffer, stronger, heavier, and harder than mahogany (be it Genuine/Honduran or Khaya/African)... it's just not quite as stiff as hard maple. It's actually about half-way between mahogany and hard maple in almost every respect, from an engineering standpoint. It's also a bit stiffer than curly European maple, which a lot of folks seem to think is stiff enough to make necks out of...

So if it's an application where mahogany is sturdy enough for the job (i.e., traditional SG necks), then soft maple should be adequate as well. I'm not convinced carbon fiber rods will be structurally necessary unless soft maple is way more prone to moving with the weather than I'm aware of.

Regarding SGs being neck heavy: yes they are, and that's even with Genuine Mahogany, which is the lightest wood you'll find on most production electric guitars (the alder-necked Allan Holdsworth signature Carvin and Parker instruments notwithstanding). It's not so much that their necks are heavy so much as their bodies are very thin (and thus lightweight) and the strap pins are up around the 22nd fret instead of way out at the 12th fret like on a Stratocaster. The balance problem is created through the design of the body and the placement of the strap buttons (and thus the balance point)... not just the neck material.

Edited May 10, 2010 by B. Aaron

[Fowl2338]

I was under the impression that African Mahogany is is heavy as a mutha.

How would Sapele fair for material and where would be the best place for strap buttons?

I should also mention that it would be a 25" scale, 22 frets.

[RestorationAD]

African Mahogany is not always that heavy as it can vary. Weight is about 24lbs to 36lbs per cu. ft.

Sapele usually runs 36 pounds per cubic foot.

Soft maple works fine for necks. I built my RG 550 clone neck out of it, super thin no carbon rods and dead straight. However It is not recommended for fretboards... that was a fiasco of CA and clamps.

If you are really worried about neck dive.

You could shorten the scale to 24.75, make the headstock a bit smaller, make the electronics cavity smaller as that would add more weight to the body, or even make the body a little thicker.

[B. Aaron]

Mahogany has a "heavy" reputation because of Les Pauls, with their massively thick bodies and heavy maple tops (hard maple = 44-46ish lbs/ft³). Its reputation is not the fault of the wood itself so much as the dimensions of the quintessential Mahogany guitars. Mahogany (Genuine or Khaya) is usually only about 10-15% heavier than Alder on average. They're both somewhere around 2/3 the weight of hard maple.

Sapele (often marketed as Mahogany) is heavier than Mahogany, as RestorationAD pointed out... 36-40lbs/ft³, depending on which sources you quote.

[Fowl2338]

Ah ok. If one were to compare the tonal qualities of Afr. Mahog. vs Sapele, what would be noted?

[B. Aaron]

Sapele is heavier and stiffer than Mahogany. If carved to the same dimensions, Sapele will theoretically produce a neck that absorbs less string energy, thus resulting in more sustain. Mahogany will have quicker decay by comparison. It raises the question of whether you want more sustain, or the more typical "punchy" character of an SG.

Tonally on a bright/dark spectrum, I have no comment.

[RestorationAD]

Usually Sapele is darker than African Mahogany ... though it is speculative, not proven, and generally my opinion.

[avengers63]

Usually Sapele is darker than African Mahogany ... though it is speculative, not proven, and generally my opinion.

I can confirm that sapele has a LOT of bottom end.

I made one with a sapele body & maple neck, and it was very dark. I have another with sapele wings/maple core and a maple neck, and it's fairly balanced, leaning towards the bright side.

[Fowl2338]

Usually Sapele is darker than African Mahogany ...

I can confirm that sapele has a LOT of bottom end.

Mmm. Sounds yummy

[Mender]

Usually Sapele is darker than African Mahogany ...

I can confirm that sapele has a LOT of bottom end.

Mmm. Sounds yummy

That's fine if you like big bottoms

[avengers63]

Usually Sapele is darker than African Mahogany ...

I can confirm that sapele has a LOT of bottom end.

Mmm. Sounds yummy

That's fine if you like big bottoms

I like big butts and I can not lie. You other brothers can't deny that when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist and a round thing in your face you get sprung. Wanna pull out your tough 'cause you notice that butt was stuffed deep in the jeans she's wearing. I'm hooked and I can't stop staring. Oh baby, I wanna get wit 'cha and take your picture. My homeboys tried to warn me, but that butt you got makes me so horny. Ooh, Rump-o'-smooth-skin, you say you wanna get in my Benz? Well, use me, use me, 'cause you ain't that average groupie. I've seen them dancin'. To hell with romancin'. She's sweat, wet, got it goin' like a turbo 'Vette. I'm tired of magazines sayin' flat butts are the thing. Take the average black man and ask him that she gotta pack much back. So, fellas! (Yeah!) Fellas! (Yeah!) Has your girlfriend got the butt? (Hell yeah!) Tell 'em to shake it! (Shake it!) Shake it! (Shake it!) Shake that healthy butt! Baby got back! (LA face with Oakland booty)

[Fowl2338]

Usually Sapele is darker than African Mahogany ...

I can confirm that sapele has a LOT of bottom end.

Mmm. Sounds yummy

That's fine if you like big bottoms

I like big butts and I can not lie. You other brothers can't deny that when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist and a round thing in your face you get sprung. Wanna pull out your tough 'cause you notice that butt was stuffed deep in the jeans she's wearing. I'm hooked and I can't stop staring. Oh baby, I wanna get wit 'cha and take your picture. My homeboys tried to warn me, but that butt you got makes me so horny. Ooh, Rump-o'-smooth-skin, you say you wanna get in my Benz? Well, use me, use me, 'cause you ain't that average groupie. I've seen them dancin'. To hell with romancin'. She's sweat, wet, got it goin' like a turbo 'Vette. I'm tired of magazines sayin' flat butts are the thing. Take the average black man and ask him that she gotta pack much back. So, fellas! (Yeah!) Fellas! (Yeah!) Has your girlfriend got the butt? (Hell yeah!) Tell 'em to shake it! (Shake it!) Shake it! (Shake it!) Shake that healthy butt! Baby got back! (LA face with Oakland booty)

Hahaha. What the average price / bf for Sapele. I've been to a couple of websites and it seems to be all over the place.

[avengers63]

What the average price / bf for Sapele. I've been to a couple of websites and it seems to be all over the place.

These are the two sites I use to find a mean market price.

Woodworker's Source

WestPenn Hardwoods

This is the eBay store I get a lot of my unfigured exotic woods from.

eBay store

His stuff looks like it's been rough cut with a beaver, so if you don't have a planer & jointer, you don't want to buy from him. If you do, you can get some decent woods for under market value, including shipping.

[B. Aaron]

His stuff looks like it's been rough cut with a beaver...

You got a problem aboot beavers there, buddy? What's the big deal, eh?

[avengers63]

beaver....

wood....

There's just way too many wrong places that can go, none of which are suitable for an open forum like this.

[Mors Phagist]

There's just way too many wrong places that can go, none of which are suitable for an open forum like this

Exactly, this is a civilized forum.

[westhemann]

Hey man,neck design is going to affect the balance more than the weight of the mahogany(I do think mahogany is a good choice)

I built the neck on my exploder as light as I could make it,and it is so light it almost feels like nothing.First off,use CF rods,because they are light and it will allow you to make the neck thinner and therefore lighter.Use laminates as well for the same reason.Rock maple 1/8" laminates in the neck will also help(I did all these things)

Here is the key...headstock thickness.Typical headstocks are around 9/16" thick.I make all of mine 7/16"..on the exploder it was 3/8" with bubinga veneer front and back to bring it up to a total of about 7/16" before finish..

The headstock is the furthest away from the body,so makes alot of difference.Pick the lightest quality tuning machines you can get..I checked the weight of all at stewmac and went that way...If you choose plastic pegs they will be even lighter.

Obviously thinning the neck so much makes it slightly weaker,so I use a small volute right behind the nut.the weight of the volute is nil,really.

Research your truss rods.I used a hotrod,but that is not the lightest available..just felt safest with it.

Thin the fretboard to 3/16"

Now..think hard about how many frets you need.22 frets is a shorter neck,and you can put it further in towards the body...make sure to stick with the 24 3/4" scale for the same reason.

And put the top strap button behind the neck joint.The upper horn is a bad balance point on the SG and the neck joint is actually further towards the headstock is the most commonly used playing position(headstock about shoulder level,body about waist level.)