rcullan Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Hey all, I am taking my first steps into refinishing my first guitar and have hit a roadblock. I stripped the body last week and glued on the veneer over the past 2 or 3 days. Tonight I stained the wood and after a few coats of color a crack developed around the volume know. I am stuck as to where to go from here. It is approx 1/16" wide and 3/4" - 1" long and straight through to the main body wood. Please see the pictures. Should I attempt to glue in a patch? Could it possibly fill in with sanding sealer and clear coating? Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mors Phagist Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Can you apply pressure and "Reseal" the crack? If so, put some glue on the inside and reseal it, and pray that it holds it together. Just my two cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcullan Posted May 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Can you apply pressure and "Reseal" the crack? If so, put some glue on the inside and reseal it, and pray that it holds it together. Just my two cents... I don't think so the glue has been drying for 24+ hours at this point. Though I have heard about using an iron to heat the glue and re-seal it. Anyone tried it before? Would you think it would work in this case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.wise-professor Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 I think the heat and seal is mainly for hide glue. What kind of glue did you use? My idea was to apply pressure too. If it doesn't flex you might be able to cut a sliver of wood to match ( make sure it matches well) and glue it in place let it dry completely and continue finishing. Was the glue still inside it's curing time when you started finishing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcullan Posted May 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 I used Titebond II, and no the glue was cured in excess of 24 hours prior to stain application which is the recommendation on the bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Sorry no help on the repair, but what type of stain did you use? If it was dye was it water based or alcohol based.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcullan Posted May 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 (edited) I got concentrated stain coloring from Stewmac.com. I mixed it with water according to their directions. Black first (one coat), sanded it down with 320 grain, and put on 3 coats of blue. Edited May 12, 2010 by rcullan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarter Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 I cant see any easy way to repair that and not have it show. I'd fill it, then try and find a way to cover it with a graphic, inlay, or such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 If the crack isn't too wide, I wonder if white glue in there would close it up? I.e. the moisture from the glue might expand the wood enough to close the crack, and once the glue is dry, the crack stays that way. But maybe that's wishful thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 I was going to reply, but my response wasn't going to be very good news, so I figured no news is sort-of good news. But anyway, I can explain what happened and why, and possibly a way to repair it, but I would first like to see the backside of the control cavity...I want to see the other side of that crack as well as possible before saying any more for the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 ya... it looks like what happened to my headstock veneer; it was a 'bubble' of sorts that i drilled thru; i put some glue in the crack and clamped it down flat; it 'worked' but mine was also dyed blue, and the the crack even after resanding had like inside grain showing so the crack is and would always be darker; but i stopped it from developing and took it as a learning experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted May 13, 2010 Report Share Posted May 13, 2010 Is the crack pulling apart on a level plane ? or is there any movement in level from one side to the other ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 I'm interested to hear Drak's response to what happened to it. In the mean time I'll throw my guess at it and see if it matches. I am thinking that the amount of wood left between the control cavity and the front it pretty thin. When you applied a water based dye the wood absorbed the water and swelled, with the exposed end grain in the hole it drank up even more causing the wood to swell and move. You might have had a spot there with less glue and with everything around it being held down to the thicker more stable body the wood had nowhere to go wit hthe extra stress, so it split. Remember this is only an educated guess though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 Draks reply is most likely remove it and start fresh. That is really the only way to fix it completely. As to why it cracked it was you probably cut that hole before you stained allowing the edge of the grain to dry too fast so it shrunk and was pulled apart when the rest of the top dried. . Maybe your glue was not fully cured either as a large surface should take 2 to 3 tiimes longer to cure fully, titebond needs to dry by moisture evaporation. IMO First its in a good spot so the pot covers some of it up. My suggestion is find a flat sawn piece of maple without figure and use that as a shim. Toss the Titebond II (where have you been reading on this forum that you dont know titebond II is the devil) and buy some original titebond. This will not work with II as it will block the stain. Then glue in a patch. You may need to take a razor blade and make the crack an even V so the new wood fits. Let it dry for an hour or so then sand it flat or use a scraper made from a razor blade (better choice). Dont wait for it to finish drying you need to finsih the job right away. You dont want to fight with cured glue lines if it can be avoided. The real trick is to blend in your stain into the patch. darker in those areas that are dark and light in those areas that are light. Once it looks close dont sand it. A fine artist brush is used to blend and apply the stain. I have repaired worse but without the stain. But one thing is the dark color is a plus as it will hide glue lines. But if you want it perfect then do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcullan Posted May 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 (edited) Okay here is an update, thanks for all of you who replied with some help. This is my first refinishing job and its on a $100 guitar, I got it at a pawn shop over 15 years ago. Literally my first real 6 string I just didnt get it at the five-and-dime. Lol. So needless to say this does not have to be a perfect finish and I will also note I have been planning from the on set of this project to a fairly heavy black burst finish around the edges of the body, enough that between the burst and the pot knob this shouldnt be an issue at the end of the day. So with that said 2 days ago I attempted a repair on a plan I developed with the help on here. I masked off the area and glued in a piece of my maple veneer. I really forced it in deep to seat all the way in. After about an hour of drying I used a razor blade to start trimming it down to the body I removed the masking tape and trimmed with the razor down flush and I am very pleased with how the repair came out. My attempt to stain it to blend was moderately successful. Thanks for the heads up Woodenspoke I was unaware that Titebond II would not stain, I grabbed it because it was the suggested glue in the veneer tutorial on projectguitar.com As for Drak's request to see the body cavity on the reverse side here you go: The wood is fairly thick at the pot hole before the veneer was applied, i'd say around 3/16", the veneer is thin obviously only around .040" thick. The crack is ONLY through the veneer the body wood is still sound. The last thing I will show is my "burst" finish templates. I do not know how exactly how deep of a burst I will need for the overspray to cover so I have cut a series of templates for the body in 1/4" increments, start large and work up if needed. So there is a Plan 'B' in the works for this. So I guess to avoid this on my next project from the feedback would be: #1) Do not use Titebond II #2) Let the veneer dry for 48 hours prior to trimming the veneer? Or should I go longer? Thanks for all the help here guys on this, much appreciated from someone brand new to this Hobby. Edited May 14, 2010 by rcullan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 Drill the hole thru the veneer after staining. Did you use a drill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcullan Posted May 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 No, I used an Xacto knife I know that was one issue because I started the knick that caused this crack in the first place. I just didnt anticipate it to grow like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 No, I used an Xacto knife I know that was one issue because I started the knick that caused this crack in the first place. I just didnt anticipate it to grow like this Always use the right tools for a job. You just cause yourself problems otherwise. Drill bits cost next to nothing when you look at the use you fet from them. As for the glueing. I always glue tops on with titebond original, clamp it for at least 24 hours, then let it sit for 5 days min. All your drilling & routes get done after the top goes on, In my oponion anyway. But keep going, A blue burt will hide that repair, if your up for it. & a mountain of clear polished & buffed to a realy high gloss should fisish it off realy cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherokee6 Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I wouldn't bother with splicing in another piece. You might be better off filling it with a dab of wood putty and use your fine brushes to "paint" in the tiny amount of grain and color. As said pauliemc, after spraying on the lacquer and buffing, you'll have a hard time spotting it. A lot of woodworkers will do it that way. After seeing gits painted with pray cans and clear coated and buffed, you'd be surprised at how well they look. There are a lot of scrapes on furniture, guitars, etc that are touched up and you'd never know they were there. I just fear if you try to splice it, you may end up with more problems scraping off the the small sliver that's tightly glued to the body. Good luck, let us know how it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcullan Posted May 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I wouldn't bother with splicing in another piece. You might be better off filling it with a dab of wood putty and use your fine brushes to "paint" in the tiny amount of grain and color. As said pauliemc, after spraying on the lacquer and buffing, you'll have a hard time spotting it. A lot of woodworkers will do it that way. After seeing gits painted with pray cans and clear coated and buffed, you'd be surprised at how well they look. There are a lot of scrapes on furniture, guitars, etc that are touched up and you'd never know they were there. I just fear if you try to splice it, you may end up with more problems scraping off the the small sliver that's tightly glued to the body. Good luck, let us know how it turns out. See pictures on above postings. Already done. It turned out quite well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 never use putty if your able to get a splint in there (although i still stand by my opening point) no matter how many 'craftsmen' use it; it doesnt react the same and will either fall out or crack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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