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Lespaul Acoustic Wiring


ansil

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OK so my buddy bought one of these Les Paul studios guitars that they are selling for a grand http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-G...udio-Faded.aspx. its OK chambered body and such PCB wiring on the pots. poor poor tolerance on pots. volumes are 250k and tones are 500k way out there man. of course they don't measure anywhere near that.

so here is our dear antique if you will wiring diagram

1950lespual.jpg let jump into the way back machine here back to good ole 1950 where everything was done right the first time and guitar wiring should never be touched because its perfect the way it is.

why does my head hurt? because we can add new stuff like pcb's for the control cavity but we cant' update the wiring. so here you go welcome to 2010

newpaul.jpg

now looking at this. if you didn't even use the blend function of the neck tone control this guitar would sound 100% better. the neck has definition its sassy and can belt out an awesome over driven and clean lead tone.

the bridge can spank like a tele and still crunch with the best of them and the new tone cap allows a greater range of the pot to be exploited resulting in a much more useful tone control. at half way its like a nice neck tone you have never had.

now if you go with the values listed here you will be able to put this in the middle position and blend the neck [i recommend center detent pots on the blend controls] and you can dial in that 470pf cap and get some really snappy over tones that are very woody acoustic like in nature and now the bridge tone control works as a master because they are all hooked together.

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yes its really a 1uf but its a blend pot now on the neck pickup and it no longer functions as a filter to ground.

you need at least 10X separation in the caps to get a noticeable blend and this was going for extreme blending. when it comes to tone controls i tend to over think them if we use the one to ground then we should try a tone control that is going to truly function as such. since its supposed to be a variable low pass filter. i tend to change the cap values so that it is musical. i did this on a friends bass guitar and now the tone control is his best friend. funny though now i forgot what i put in there. i set the values for a normal four string bass. 40hz up.

i rant on a bit about guitars being wired in the 50's and no one is really out there pushing passive wiring to its limits. i add extra switch positions to my 5 ways to get a little more tonal magic out of them.

btw have you ever tried a 1uf in the tone pot. its great. man. i did this on my hot rod strat. sure it rolls off treble but volume too. with a medium bright metal distortion [hard rock gain] you can roll it back to a nice bluesy type tone.

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Interesting ideas there ansil...I am all for playing the wiring by ear and trying some unexpected values.

I did an unusual kill switch a while ago, you could swithc in a cap of a specially selected value to provide and extreme passive tone switch...sounded a bit wha like rather than just killing the thing.

...

I'm about to embark on my own LP project, not sure I want exactly this kind of thing...but it will have 4 push pulls on it, s who knows what it might turn into...hoping to perfect a piezo on the kahler...

LPfront01.jpg

but I'm looking for options as I hope this to be a special guitar and replace my tele as my main guitar...sorry sustainer fans...no sustainer technology on this one!

None of my guitars contain PCB's though :D

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hey psw i have been looking into putting a piezo on that kind of kahler i made an sg with that bridge on it. right now i just have it primitively clamped under the thing and i can get some sounds out of it but nothing remarkable if you figure something out would you mind shedding some light?

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ArMelvin1

Sure...not sure how long it will take...have sought advice elsewhere, there certainly are ways to make these things work of course.

I added a typical "buzzer" piezo element to the wood below the bridge...in the spring route. This is the same for either Kahler model, but potentially applicable even with fixed bridge installations. There are numerous circuits and installations about, typically for strats...here and elsewhere

So...I put the piezo on the wood below the bridge as I anticipated adding it to the bridge itself might make a bit of spring noise.

I found a smallish cheap preamp kit, so will be working with this as the basis...all piezos will need a powered buffer or preamp of some kind...this one I have used for the sustainer project and should fit the bill.

I also anticipate, and in line with previous work on these things, that they wont sound that great on their own. So the plan is to have a mix only, probably with a preset volume on the piezo with an internal trim pot...and just pull a pot to add in the piezo to the body of the mags in any selection...give it an acoustic like percussive edge in mono...

but we will have to see, perhaps the whole guitar may need to be pre-amped in order to effectively mix things...I hope not...

So, this is my new project and direction.

Not taking away from ansil's contribution though...there are a huge range of sounds available from most guitars and the tone controls are often neglected. If, like most, you don't use tone contrls at all, you may as well explore some of the "extremes" and see where they lead. Rmember a cap or resistor only cost a few cents...so, for a dolar ot two, you can get a fair amount to play with...

For my project it is a bit ore complicated...

Piezos require an active system, there really isn't a way around that. Electric guitars are not acoustic guitars, this is a given. However, there is a middle ground I believe. A simple piezo system should draw little power, if nthe whole guitar need not be preamped, it should last for months, if not, well it will still last a long time if un-plugged when not played and add the benefits of an active system.

This project is a little unusual, it will feature coil taps and a few other tonal tricks to get the most out of it. I(t is for a particular musical project that requires a clean sound and some variation...so not your typical guitar. And as well as the electronics, there is quite a bit to do yet in the set up.

It was intended to be a sister to the tele I built a while back, then put on hold for a long time. I now realize that I am incorporating a few behind the net bends into my arrangements and a locking nut may cause problems...so, beyond the electronic side of things, a bit of thought will have to go into the set up and some practical solutions...

But for sure, I am really keen to have this thing work and a plan that can be replicated by others easily and relatively cheaply and to good effect...when the whole thing gets working, I should even be able to do a few sound clips. But, as I say, it is really to put a bit of a percussive acoustic edge to things....none of this stereo or full acoustic kind of aspirations that you might expect from a "ghost" of "fishman" kind of system...but I am hopeful that it will be effective and useful, cheap and low mod....

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not all piezo's require active system the brian moore guitars are not active piezos. they do run into an active matrix that goes down the 13-pin roland gk connecter however the stereo split system does not require power nor does the output of it come from any type of amplifier.

ed

btw if you are like me and have access to one you can take the battery out and see what i am talking about or you can look at the poly drive system and see it as well. actually they sound much more natural this way than with a preamp. however the piece on my guitar is 279 minus the polydrive module so rmc tends to put out some very high end stuff.

the balance on this as well is still very nice it really breathes better if such a thing is possible

ed

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if you are bored you can do a real simple diy lespaul saddle. get the smallest piezo elements you can find trim them to fit between two small metal pieces that combined equal the size of one of the lespaul saddles. i have had some luck with this but nothing i would let leave the shop yet. but i also have very little in the tool department

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if you are bored you can do a real simple diy lespaul saddle.

I've done something like this on a strat in order to attempt piezo hex signals for the hex sustainer drivers...but it is painstaking work...

I really don't need to have that kind of separate outputs not do I expect it really to sound like an acoustic...as what I am intending isn't with a "band" if the sound isn't right, it just wont get used.

A lot can be done to get acoustic like tones though with wiring tricks...a strat alone can give a bit of this flavour.

not all piezo's require active system the brian moore guitars are not active piezos. they do run into an active matrix that goes down the 13-pin roland gk connecter however the stereo split system does not require power nor does the output of it come from any type of amplifier.

They must surely have some kind of impedance matching device...perhaps they use transformers...I was wondering if something like that might be of use in my project...

Piezos will make a noise, typically very brittle, but the impedance mis match is pretty extreme...mixing them with high impedance pickups like standard passives is generally a bad plan.

I am a bit concerned, and I have heard it said it can't be done, that if the preamp makes the piezo to low impedance, how will the mags cope with a mix with this signal. The advice is typically to preamp both, or at least a buffer...i'd rather have the possibility of running the guitar without a battery...things can go wrong of course...

Thanks for the input though...I'm still puzzling over it

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Well...I did try a few tests on the piezo and was not too impressed...just a simple piezo with a preamp...but the high end sounds just a little much to me and for the whole project, perhaps a little unreliable

There are good sounds to be had that approach acoustic like...as ansils post tends towards. It isn't a mod that I could see me getting around easily...

So, considering a few options, but may just settle for the JP like wiring and move on to setting up the guitar before I get carried away with piezos in it.

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this could be why BM decided to go the other way and use a separate output. they said it didn't sound all that well with the blend option from the polydrive. there are extra wires there to make it work. if you like i can give you a guitar straight into the line input sound for you to compare. keep in mind though my bridge is more expensive than the lr braggs. whether or not its hype or over pricing i have never played another system like mine. lol wouldn't you know i get the weird stuff.

i had a similar issue on using the stock piezo on the bridges of guitars that why i went neck pocket on my strat and i have never been happier. i blend it with the pickups straight no buffer no pot just have it set to be wired in the guitar on the five way selector switch.

my wiring now with it is a three way blade switch set up for neck piezo bridge.

thats the rmc bridge on the BM

the strat is set up on a toggle switch to ground. so the piezo tied to the output

something for you to look at psw

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...78&hl=piezo

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If you want to do it properly, something like this doesn't sound bad...buffering all of the parts and a little tone shaping.

Piezo/mag circuit diy johnH

The moore could well have separate processing outside the guitar for the piezo, but the enormous mismatches in impedance can't help but load things down.

I have done the neck pocket things a few times and it can work with a preamp...this guitar is set necka nd very solid though.

Of course. the problem with the neck piezo thing is that it can pick up a lot of thumping from the fretting fingers. I play very clean and increasingly precisely with a lot of space, and no band to mask things...so I really can't afford to have a poor sound that is going to pick up handling noise. I can't be running separate amps for different systems either.

Been researching some interesting options for pickup selection. And I did get to hear the pickups in the guitar for the first time, sound remarkably good. Plenty powerful enough to split and still get a good sound as well.

It's a shame, as I really was hoping to add this feature from the start, but I can see now that I'd have to make the whole guitar active and do a bit more tine shaping...and probably have to move the piezo...and even then I might have something that is so sensitive to handing noise I'd not enjoy or use it very much. SO far all I got is a lot of ugly high end zing and hollowness, I could add in the pickups without loading them, or so it seemed, but the sound was just not there.

I think the way to go then at this stage is to go for coil switching options and such much as you have put forward in some ways. However, I really couldn't live with these kind of mixing and interactive controls as presented here on a working live guitar.

At this stage, I'm looking at an improved Jimmy Page scheme which provides I think about 22 options...there should be a few in there that will prove useful. On my real LP, I have alternating coil splits that are very versatile, and I have heard of coil swap / series parallel circuits today that look like they have a lot of potential...but got to stay simpler these days and bullet proof.

I'll be taking photos and showing a few tips and ideas on the thing along the way though...so look out for that...now, back to my flu...

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can you get the piezos between the roller saddles and the metal base plate?

You might find the best sound around this area... given you dont short out the piezo, crush it, and end up with raised string action, or just unrealiable in this position.

I have spent weeks in actual attempts at getting these things to work. a little frustrating to think of even now... but I will hang in here and see what you get going.

I know you can get it to work, and sound good... I have many different ways. Just not the whole package yet.

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Hey there...

can you get the piezos between the roller saddles and the metal base plate?

Yes, I think that would be possible on a kahler, it is even possible to cut piezos if youare careful...or there are still other alternatives...easy to break though, hard to solder to...but it is possible. I dare say it would give more output of course. I could just lift the gain on the preamp or even add more piezos in there...

You might find the best sound around this area... given you dont short out the piezo, crush it, and end up with raised string action, or just unrealiable in this position.

Yes...as above...but potentially a bit of handling noise or picking up the sound of the trem rollers or springs and cam mechanism...that's why I started with a scheme to avoid that...but perhaps not practical.

I have spent weeks in actual attempts at getting these things to work. a little frustrating to think of even now... but I will hang in here and see what you get going.

Yes...there are a few very successful piezo DIY things about and many sound terrific. I think I pointed to JohnH's, but if you search back you will find a few others that are similar.

I know you can get it to work, and sound good... I have many different ways. Just not the whole package yet.

Yes...this is the thing...and patience.

The neck pocket thing works for instance, but you hear the fretting hand...hmmm....that option sounds woodier though than a lot of saddle types and is an easy mod. These guitars do tend to pick up a bit of handling noise if not handled carefully. This is just generally the case with any such system.

So, maybe...well see.

I spent the day wiring it to a twenty-dual scheme that has a huge variety of tones (well, 22 plus various mixes) and I'm pretty impressed with the results. A few 'fender' like tones such as the two inner coils of the HB's, some nice big almost jazz thick sounds with both HB's in series to make a huge HB with a lot of power...and a phase switch that can hollow out the tones, some of them vaguely acoustic in nature.

The thing with this guitar is that I am seeking to make it pretty bullet proof, and not to have anything 'kinda ok' or experimental about it. I have other guitars to do that kind of thing on. I'm also planning this guitar for a particular project, it does not require 'strumming' guitar parts or anything particularly "acoustic" but a bit of a percussive edge would have been a nice addition.

So...yes, keep it up...do some searches for other piezo things about, there are some good ones...it can be made to work...if it is really what this guitar needs, I'm not sure.

So, will be doing a set up and eventually posting a thread on it...good luck though, keep on plugging away...

...

PS I was wondering, has anyone attempted to use a small transformer instead of active electronics to adjust the impedance of a piezo to that of around a high impedance guitar pickup so they actually could be mixed?

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  • 2 weeks later...

hey sorry i hadn't gotten back in a while. So far my experience has been just shy of fully satisfying. My Kahler trem like yours is mounted on an all mahogany SG i made so i started messing with ideas first i stuck a Radioshack piezo under the leading edge since it should press down the hardest withouth a preamp obviously it was very harsh and bright but it did have pretty good output but was obviously picking up handling noises especially when i touched the whammy bar.

so the next trial was to buy a cheap under saddle piezo and preamp for an acoustic guitar and using the RS piezo from earlier into the preamp it sounded great just like an acoustic fitted with the system but probably because it was a cheap-ish preamp it still didn't give me the open woody tone of a straight acoustic, probably never will but anyways. to try and cut the harshness out i used some shrinkwrap on the RS piezo and that really cut the handling noise but i had to have the volume and most of the equalization controls of the preamp at max. not really a good solution if you want to be able to shape your tone.

so then i did what i should have done. I saw in another thread i believe from Johnny foreigner where he stuck the under saddle piezo from a kit like mine under a hardtail bridge so i chiseled out a little ledge under my kahler and put the under saddle piezo there then reinstalled the kahler it sounded much better this way but now ill have to make a preamp cause the one i have is way too big to fit into an sg another dissapointment is is that to get pressure on the piezo the kahler is a little higher off the body and can rock slightly so i'm still working on it but it is much much more satisfying to do it myself.

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If you want to do it properly, something like this doesn't sound bad...buffering all of the parts and a little tone shaping.

Piezo/mag circuit diy johnH

ArMelvin1...great work, saves me doing too much mucking about...did you check out this preamp/piezo installation and design, plus sound clips?

I think a big part of me not getting better results was that I was mounting the piezo on the wood below the khaler, so not on the bridge itself and not getting a strong or full set of vibrations out of it...therefore requiring a lot of amplification and getting just a lot of the highs and squeaks...so perhaps a bit ambitious there for a reasonable response.

In john's strat one above, you will see the bridge pushes against a rubber stopper attached to the piezo...something to consider perhaps.

sounds like you are getting results and just need to clean everything up once you get the 'sound' you are after..can't be having a rocking bridge!

The handling noise is obviously a concern...and a dual edge sword...keep it on the wood and you only pickup some vibrations and a low signal to work with or attach it to the bridge and get a high output but also the signal of anything that touches the thing, plus the sound of the bar and the springs with trem use...

I had thought the obvious 'solution' to have a really good go at this would be to put the piezos, perhaps a piezo strip saddle or a few buzzers cut down (you know you can wire multiple buzzers together?) under or just behind the shelf that the bridge saddles sit on...the saddles on a kahler tend to sit pretty high..and drill a small hole for the wires hidden under the saddles or take them forward and under...hoping to get more of the 'string' vibrations perhaps.

A khaler bridge is a pretty solid thing so the vibrations from it are going to be pretty "bright" but those saddle piezo things are picking up a similar kind of signal.

It is unlikely to pick up much of a "woody" tone either on a bridge or on an electric guitar (though, many say that of Ovation type bridges for decades, it sounds like a piezo as much as anything) ... a lot of the shaping needs to be done in the preamp to get a decent tone.

The thing is that it is a completely different signal and sound to a mag pickup, far more percussive and quick in attack and can give a good 'edge' that many mag pickups, particularly HB's can lack. So, adding to this to the electric sound is where it is at for me I think.

For my guitar, I've gone more the way of ansil's proposal to scoop out frequencise and such with phasing and splitting and tone controls and avoid the preamps and the piezos all together, but the too is hardly 'acoustic' in the same way...but still an effective strategy.

Really though, there are some great sounding acoustic simulators about these days, I think for me if I must have this effect, given the handling noise issues, this is probably more the way to go.

Not completely given up though, although my guitar has all it's controls taken up now, there is always the possibility of adding some slide switches secretly in the cavity plates, especially the back of the selector switch plate on an LP...so will continue to follow your project to see what results you get. Having a good way of piezio'ing a kahler easily and effectively would be something of a coup I suspect...so keep at it!

....

Notable AC simulators are from Boss and a Behringer clone that is of course super cheap...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJqIxVQ5_cE...at about $50au, got to wonder whether a sim isn't going to do the job without handling noise or mods of the guitar, and with the press of a pedal...on an electric (varies a bit with guitars of course) this is probably as close as you'd be getting anyway. Just some thoughts...I have several good ones in my Boss BR-600 recorder that work quite well, some have a few effects like chorus and stereo delays, some can sound like a 12 string with a octave up effect...so, you know, there are other options to consider

Edited by psw
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Thank you i really enjoy the fact that since my first post all i have gotten back is kind words and advice/help. currently I'm thinking combining ansil's wiring the piezo strip under the bridge and one clamped to the headstock in some manner or another might get the most tone out of the solid body. As for the rocking bridge i think i'll just drill some extra mounting holes in the base plate as this kahler is definitely staying on this guitar, for now.lol. I'd show pictures but i didn't take any during the install and now you can't see it which was my goal. And on wiring piezos together should i go in series or parallel? I had wondered about that, Oh ya sorry to Ansil about all of my talking in your thread i do really appreciate your sharing of this wiring idea I will definitely use it.

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That's cool...

Still can't imagine how you got a kahler to "rock"...my LP uses the stud mounting, but my tele has the falt mount thing and they are both incredibly solid...

On the wiring thing, there are things you can do, but with passive filters, you can only really take away stuff...there are some 'trick pots' about with caps and mini transformers to create a more spohisticated filter, usually promoted as sounding like an inbetween strat sound...

On my new LP, I have a huge range of options wired in, the two inner coils of it sound very 'acoustically' in a kind of inbetween strat way which is kind of cool...the bridtge parallel mode is pretty cool as well...so there are things you can do with wiring alone and no batteries, but they are not going to sound particularly "acoustic"...

Been researching the possibilities of Acoustic Sims and considering buying a AM100 for like $50 as it probably is going to sound as good as most piezo options and very convenient and adaptable. Depends a fair bit on the guitar used...it uses filters to simulate a kind of acoustic sound but it can only work on the frequencies present, a lot of HB's have a lot of midrange and are going to be a lot less realistic.

Not sure that sticking a piezo to the headstock is such a good idea...the guitar vibrates in all kinds of ways with different resonances...with the neck joint mounting, it works and pretty woody and a strong signal there, but then it also picks up the noise of your fingers handling the neck!

There are a lot of piezo things on this site, most are pretty old, but if you search hard enough things will come up.

You can run the piezos either way, they will still need to go into a preamp which should fix the impedance mismatching...so it is easy enough to string a few of them together to pickup different samples from the bridge and elsewhere...headstock though, not sure about that one!

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On the headstock was something i tried when i first started messing with piezos it was just a piezo element taped down to the headstock and a jack wired to it and i got some tone out of it. maybe it was a one time thing i don't know i'm no where near your electrical/ experimental guitar skills or ansils or anyones really lol. i just try to see what i can do.

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haha.. I have installed piezos in several guitars in more places than you can shale a stick at.

I have done the head stock on a flying V, which had a large brass plate truss cover. this gave some good tone.

Also under the nut, I tried wedged in a tuner peg.

the neck pocket bottom. the neck pocket side. Between neck brace plate and body

In the spring block, behind the spring block, in front of the spring block. between the block and the plate, under the saddles, on the saddles, on the trem claw.

On a TOM bridge. Under a TOM bridge, in the wood under a TOM bridge. on each saddle of the TOM bridge.

In front/behind, and in the middle of acoustic bridges. On top of a arch top bridge. Inside an arch top bridge.

Glued to acoustic guitar bodies all over the place.

I also found almost every guitar gives out different results.

The absolute best result is a piezo in contact with the string, or slighlty seperated by epoxy. Next under the saddles....

The rest is dependent on how the piezo is in contact. this creates mid range tones etc to change all over the place. it created an airy sound if half was kind of loose, such as half wedged under a bridge. if it was say epoxied in it gave a punchier tone, but not the same as a desired air tone. Hard to explain when I am not real savy with the freq speak. But I know what I am looking for in tone.

I have 6 piezos sitting in a strat with 13 guage strings right now. The piezos are all over the guitar. 2 in the neck pocket, 2 on the bridge, under the saddles, the rest I am forgetting. I can turn on which ever piezo whenever. it is fun to see which ones actually suck when you can just go right through all locations and compare. however each one adds something different to the tone. I only mix them in with mag pickups. usually have the mag pickups turned down a lot to just add back filler. I dont use preamps on these set ups. I do on the acoutic bridges.

Another thing I found was turning on 2 piezos at once sometimes made the piezo sound cut output further.

However I wired 5 under a wood bridge and filled them with epoxy and they all work great together, very strange.

also cutting the piezos per string frustrated me as I had issues getting all strings output balanced. If you cut one in half and ran the 2 haves on say an acoustic bridge, it usually sounded pretty good just first try. Individual ones made me stop doing it. I purchased 500 piezos disks. I am almost out.

Edited by billm90
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Have you any soundclips of these piezo guitars?

I wasn't suggesting you won't get 'a' sound out of putting a piezo literally anywhere...the peg head does produce quite a few vibrations of course, its relatively quite a flexible bit of the guitar with the strings mounted at the end of it. However, such pickups on the nut end are likely to be picking up a fair amount of the vibrations of the string behind the fretted note...the length of the string between the fret and the nut, and the string length between the nuts and the tuners on many guitars as well. Plus of course, any kind of fretting noise of hand shifting on the neck and such...all produce vibrations.

Still, maybe that's an effect you are after, or not your experience with them. Regardless of the potential odd frequencies that might be in the background, the main fundamentals will still predominate...Headstock tuners after all use an internal piezo to pickup the vibrations there and read the pitch from it.

With mixing piezos, these things will obviously make a noise just as they are and and amp compensate for the loss of volume compared to mags...and of course contains the preamp...but the P's and Mags together have a tremendous mismatch of impedance that can't avoid loading of both...

It does show the advantageous of multiple piezos...you can add them together, but like any pickups, you can put them in or out of phase resulting in 'cancellations' of frequencies or reinforcing others...so it is very much a case of moving things around and finding the sound that works for you and a particular guitar. Pevey had some guitars with piezo saddles and a neck pocket piezio for instance to add a bit more of a 'woody' tone to things. But, equally, in my experience, the neck pocket piezos can sound great, but then you do pickup a bit of noise if playing in the upper fret region, specifically the "thumping" of you fingers as they come down on the fretboard...not so bad if strumming chords in an open position...but if that's what you do, it can be an effective addition.

...

On the Kahler, I just got an email today that they are producing a piezo...even sent me some pics.

Basically it will be graph tech saddles that will replace the kahler saddles and use the great Ghost system so it will be able to do both piezo acoustic sounds, but be hex compatible and operate as a midi controller too!

...

I was a little surprised that the piezo in my LP directly under the bridge produced such little output (even with a preamp) and the sound was poor regardless.

After a bit of thought, some price checking and listening to the sounds, the acoustic sims are certainly getting better and potentially, with the right kind of source sound, very good if not 'better' kinds of effects at the push of a button....hmmm

Still, I'd be open to being swayed by some great sounds and ideas to achieve much the same effects.

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I wish I had some good stuff to capture sound clips with, but I dont. I dont know how to do all the cool stuff the link you posted with measuring frequencies.

If I could find a decent way to catch it with a camera that did justice to the sounds I would spend some time doing it for you. I know from other things the sound generally sucks.

I have 2 production bridges with the piezos built in. A fishman on a strat that I have nylon strings on again. and a TOM bridge that I Played with, but have not decided which guitar to put it on. Hands down these systems beat a DIY set up, so the ghost system would be a great way to get you there (however dont give up on the DIY yet). Plus I guess you lose the rollers which could be Good or bad depending on what you want.

As far as where the DIY piezos are placed and what they pick up is defently an issue. When I first started years back, I was very upset with this vibrations and thumps and string scratches being louder. I guess I kind of figured you get what you get and bend the playing around where the pickup is.

I know what you are talking about in the neck pocket and pickup up finger noise etc.... I think if you try out the headstock piezo real quick, you might find it not as bad for certain playing styles.

My DIY piezos in my LP bridge were bad as well.

the saddle set up was showing hope but just too hard. I could actually ground the bridge, and break off the ceramic from the buzzers, solder a lead wire to that piece, and touch it to the bridge to get the circuit complete. I epoxied these to each saddle. very irritating. And unbalanced again.

I even tried taking apart one of those BBQ lighters with the piezo sparker to try and use that.

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Hahaha...you sound like a real experimenter...i tried some cutting of piezos much the same way, even was able to solder leads to them...the last ones were to slip under a strats saddles individually...but these things are very primitive really and I think you could do as well DIY with multiple buzzer elements strategically placed, in the bridge and in other places to balance things out a bit...that's how it was always done in acoustics before the saddle things turned up...it's just like mic-ing the things up.

Meanwhile, I've put in an order for an acoustic sim to take care of that side of things in the immediate future, I can use it on multiple guitars at least. So, we will see how a cheap one sounds and I will let you know...maybe some hiss, we'll see.

I used to do a lot of experimenting like this, and have cheap guitars to play around with, but these days, I'm getting a bit more 'serious' with the outcomes and concentrating on things that are a bit more reliable and practical in a real word scenario...so, no wires hanging off the headstock on any new projects I don't think!

I do have a project on hold though that I might get around to...a cro0ss between an acoustic "jazz box" with a strat neck and electronics, probably even a trem...but also, piezo system...I have a few good professional systems in a box but the preamps and such are too big ot go into any electric without a lot of digging into them!

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so then i did what i should have done. I saw in another thread i believe from Johnny foreigner where he stuck the under saddle piezo from a kit like mine under a hardtail bridge so i chiseled out a little ledge under my kahler and put the under saddle piezo there then reinstalled the kahler it sounded much better this way but now ill have to make a preamp cause the one i have is way too big to fit into an sg another dissapointment is is that to get pressure on the piezo the kahler is a little higher off the body and can rock slightly so i'm still working on it but it is much much more satisfying to do it myself.

does this mean I invented something???

:D

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