Prepping Ash

[punk]

Hi there

so i purchased an unfinished ash strat body from guitar fetish and I'm planning to get a sunburst finish on it. I'm confident in applying the finish, but I'm not confident in prepping the ash correctly... I haven't touched it yet, and I have in my possession some shellac sealer and elmers wood filler. I know that ash is very fuzzy and i want to have the guitar as smooth as possible before I start the finish, but I'm lost on where to start prepping.

Is there any special order of applying the sealer and wood filler? does the guitar need to be stained?

The way I figured it was sand - filler - sealer - sand - primer/finish.

sorry for the newb questions, and thanks in advance

[killemall8]

Are you going to paint it, or do a clear finish?

1) wood filler has NO place in guitar building. You need REAL grainfiller, or epoxy to fill the grain.

I would graifill, stain (if you want it a different color) seal, clear.

[punk]

whats the difference between wood filler and grain filler? and yes, i'm doing a sunburst finish, pre-60's strat style.

thanks

[RobSm]

..you can use talc in shellac as a filler...

"FINALLY

Talc is also used as a very fine abrasive, a lubricant on bench-tops, machinery, drawer runners, etc. and can be added to shellac as a grain filler. Our talc is much finer than ordinary body talc and completely free from perfumes that may harm a finish. It is also ideal for use as a body talc for people who are allergic to perfumes and other additives. There are many more practical uses for this amazing powder, from soaking up oil spills to ................ well, let your imagination run wild. "

Shellac & Talc

Have fun.

[Musiclogic]

Grain filler is usually the consistency of thinned paste, much like rubbing compound. Wood filler is generally more like dough, thick and workable but not thin enough to really spread into the grain. It is used to fill holes generally. BUT you can thin Elmers wood filler with water, and make it work like a grain filler, and quite well, but you must work fast using this method, as it will dry and re set quite quickly. Only use a small amount of water with a small amount of filler and mix well, then spread on your chosen area working it into the grain with a small paddle or squeegy. Always work across the grain to get best fill, and do a final squeegy with the grain when finished filling area to smooth.

As for finish on Swamp Ash(Black Ash)if filled with a natural or clear filler, finish sand to 400grit, take a damp rag(NOT WET...just damp) and wipe the complete body down to raise the grain/fuzz it up, let dry for 8 hours, sand back with 400 until smooth, clean away all dust, lay down 3 coats of sealer, let dry overnight(minimum 12 hours), sand smooth with 320 and 400, you are ready to begin applying your color. Complete finish regimine from here.

[punk]

unfortunately i'm fresh out of australian currency, but thanks for the link.

thanks musiclogic, it seems to be working great. i got the filler close to the consistency of mustard and it works fine.

[ihocky2]

I would stay away from thinning out any wood puty/wood filler to make it thinner to spread. It is still wood filler and still has the same draws backs, possibly more with thinning it out. Wood filler is known to have adhesion problems over time. Wood filler is also known to shrink back within a few years. I would spend the little bit of extra money and get grain filler or else use epoxy or super glue.

[Quarter]

Like ihocky2 mentioned, I'd also say get some real pore filler or epoxy and play it safe. I've got a swamp ash body / walnut top project starting up and will be using Zpoxy finishing resin. I like the way if fills, sands, and looks for a natural or trans finish. Here is a good YouTube showing how to apply it with a squeegee

And here is some more usefull info from LMI http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts....Header=Z%2Dpoxy

Edited July 30, 2010 by Quarter

[Musiclogic]

Just to help ihocky2 and Quarter out, Elmers filler is Alaphatic resin glue based filler with wood dust and resin mixed in to make the putty, on the large packs, it gives this method for thinning, this is not some seat of the pants method, this is actually manufacturer reccommendation, and used/written about in many woodworkers sites and magazines. It is simple and effective, this is why I reccommended it, and this is what he had on hand. It's practical, and it works.

PUNK....glad it is working out for you....Mustard, good analogy, I should have thought of that...LOL Thanks

[ihocky2]

My concern is not so much the method of thinning but the resulting product. Thinning wood filler to make it easier to cover a corner joint or a nail hole is one thing. Using it as grain filler is another. The finishes that are acceptable on wood products and an acceptable finish on gutiars are on two different levels. Guitars are finished to the standards of custom painted cars, even a factory car finish has more orange peal than would be acceptable on a guitar. Having grain filler shrink back and reveal the grain down the road would be a big dissapointment on what could be a favorite guitar.

[Musiclogic]

I am not going to make this an arguement, Just state that guitars and exhibition grade furniture are finished to much higher standards than cars these days. I do car shows, I do dash, door, and decorative panels for show cars, and high end stereo cars in my off time, I also have been a Luthier for 26 years. (Not a guitar builder, a luthier...yes there is a difference.) If you have not worked with a product, do not comment, you are making a blanket statement about products that are different. Elmers filler is NOT wood dough, it is NOT Plastic wood, and it is not a solvent based acrylic filler. You CAN NOT lump all of these products together, as they all have different properties. BTW, check out some exhibition grade furniture sometime if you want to see finishing that is beyond anything in Luthierie.

[ihocky2]

I'm not trying to make an arguement, and I appologize if it came off arguementative. More so that I don't want people misreading information in the future and just haphazardly using wood filler and having major problems with it. You have seen as well as I have the amount of times that it has been explained on this board the difference of grain filler and wood filler, and I want to make sure that this information does not create it's own blanket statement that you can just use any wood filler on the shelf.

I have used the Elmers wood filler and have not noticed a difference in it versus the Minwax stuff other than it is not stainable. Maybe I used a different product by Elmers, but I am only speaking from my experience. If you are having great results with the stuff, than more power to you.

[Musiclogic]

I apologize, I was reading it a different way. Yes, no wood filler really takes stain well if at all, I was just stressing the base of the elmers product as useable due to the fact Punk already had it, and many woodworkers use it in this way as a quick fill for grain, and that it works well.