What Makes A More Expensive Guitar Better?

[tra]

Disclaimer: Handmade, hand carved, etc guitars are exempt

This might be a highly subjective and loaded question, but what makes an expensive guitar better than a cheaper model besides country of origin and name brand parts? If you do a nice setup on a $99 Squier and throw on some improved hardware/pickups...what makes a Fender Strat better? The time it takes for quality craftsmanship is an obvious reason as is the difference in labor costs in the country of origin, but since a lot of the work on "off the shelf" guitars are done by machine and final assembly is left to humans...is the extra cost name brand parts and attention to the setup?

Probably a stupid question, but I can't help thinking that a decent cheap guitar can be just as good as guitars 10x the cost with a little work. For example, I bought a Jay Turser JT-300 and after some tweaking it feels and looks just as nice as my USA made Charvel So-Cal. Again, that is highly subjective and the Floyd Rose on my Charvel costs more than double what I paid for the Jay Turser.

[avengers63]

If you do a nice setup on a $99 Squier and throw on some improved hardware/pickups...

The time it takes for quality craftsmanship is an obvious reason as is the difference in labor costs in the country of origin...

...is the extra cost name brand parts and attention to the setup?

...Jay Turser JT-300 and after some tweaking it feels and looks just as nice as my USA made Charvel So-Cal.

...the Floyd Rose on my Charvel costs more than double what I paid for the Jay Turser.

I think you've answered your own question.

[Samba Pa Ti]

some of the japan squiers (and other japanese guitars) are better than some of the us fenders, the 80's models are noted for very high quality.

this makes it a bit of a minefield as you can get some squiers with absolutely crap parts and made of plywood lam.

[DC Ross]

IMO, PRSs are the only high-production guitars worth their cost. They have exceptional quality control at many points along the production line. The consistency between guitars is amazing, and the amount of (USA) handwork is incredible.

Here's a fun test: pick up three of the same model Gibson (I did this with 1960 Les Paul reissues), and see and feel how different they are from each other straight out of the box. Do the same with PRS Custom 22s. Keep in mind that these are all around the same price point. The PRS is, quantifiably, a far superior instrument.

[FireFly]

A lot of cheaper guitars will have multiple joined pieces for bodies. Its not uncommon for someone here to strip a body of its paint and find a 5 piece body.

There's also attention to detail. The routing job under a pickguard can tell you a lot. There can be 3 neatly cut spaces for specific pickup sizes, or there can be a swimming pool sized ditch carved out to accomodate any generic pickup combination.

Intonation, and overall measurements are something I've come across as well. Typically, a $120 squire strat will not intonate as well as a USA Fender or Japanese Squire will. Position markers can be slightly off, there could be knots in wood, the wood could be flatsawn instead of quartersawn for a neck, the quality of the hardware may be inferior, etc. .

For example, I just had a lower end LTD in the shop. The owner was complaining about tuning issues. I tuned it up, played a note and watched the note sink. So I restrung it. As I was restringing, I noticed that the tuning posts were wiggling a bit. So I tightened the nut on one, and the entire post snapped off and started spinning freely. These tuners were obviously not a quality product. I replaced them with some Gotohs, and everything was good.

Pickups are another one. I don't know much about them though, so I can't give you any indepth commentary about that. Im guessing magnets, winding and other stuff have to do with that...

There's lots and lots of little elements and cost saving procedures that can go into making a cheap guitar. There's lost of painstaking quality control and practices that make a great instrument.

[dalandser]

A lot of cheaper guitars will have multiple joined pieces for bodies. Its not uncommon for someone here to strip a body of its paint and find a 5 piece body.

I stripped a guitar and found that it was an 8 piece body between two 1/4 inch caps.

I think that this question is time vs. money. Spending a lot of time looking at, testing, and modifying a cheap guitar can yield the same results as spending more money on an expensive guitar that has already been looked at and tested (more quality control) and comes stocked with better components.

Right now I have more time than money and I like modifying guitars so there's an extra fun factor in it for me so I go with modifying less expensive models.

[westhemann]

I think once you get used to playing truly great guitars the "middle of the road" stuff is much less appealing.Hard to really quantify it,but my Japanese Edwards feels better in my hands than anything else I have right now...only thing I ever had that compared in playability was a Gibson LP studio and a USA Jackson Soloist..

[akvguitars]

I work in a music store doing repairs, and I think that the high end gear is a bunch of junk. I just got a new Gibson Songwriter in tonight, and the first fret wasn't even seated! The open strings were all buzzing horribly, and I had to take the fretting hammer and super glue to it. RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. Fenders and Gibsons can't hold up to the shipping as well as the foreign guitars, for some reason. I've had to send back twice as many Gibson acoustics for the 14th fret hump than foreign. I've NEVER seen the 14th fret hump in one of the brand new Yamahas or Takamine Jasmines, which are pretty cheap guitars. I've got an $850 Taylor with laminated sides and back, and a $300 Yamaha with solid rosewood sides and back, and a solid top. The finish is great, the woods are amazing quality, and the setup was ready to go right out of the box, just needed tuning. When recorded at a studio alongside a Gibson dread, the Yamaha sounded much sweeter and responded much more accurately to what the player was doing. I've had to level the frets of our $4000 Koa Taylor right when it came in; countless examples...

All in all, I'm absolutely not impressed with American FACTORY guitars. At all. Even if I didn't do the work myself, I'd still rather get better quality, attention to detail (anyone seen how many file marks the stupid Gibson Les Paul binding method leaves?), and value, and skip out on "brand name" nonsense.

I'd be getting a full setup, fret dressing (semi-hemi, baby!) and changing pickups regardless of whether I got an Epi or Gibby.

Fender's hit or miss. I've played an amazing Squier classic vibe strat that outplayed ALL of the Fender strats in the store, tone and feel. $1800 Eric Johnson strat? Hype...

Not to say there aren't some cheap clunkers and lemons, but in my experience, the American factory made guitars just aren't worth anything near the money. Except maybe PRS, but only once you get past the $1500 mark.

Just my two centavos.

Edited September 5, 2010 by akvguitars

[Batfink]

One word - Longevity.

If you gig on a regular basis you'd be amazed how quickly certain import guitars can deconstruct themselves. Hardware and electrics are well documented but the worse thing, to my mind, is strap buttons that pull out with the 'wood' (i'm being kind here) being so crap that i've ended up drilling a 13mm hole out so i can plug it with something that will actually hold a screw. For plinking around in your bedroom fine, but if you're planning on some hard work consider how your image suffers when your guitars constantly break down and how annoyed your lead guitarist (your's truely) gets fixing the shyte all the time !

[westhemann]

Well,you know..My first guitar was a Kamen Applause.It would not hold tune,it looked horrible,and the body was plywood..but I loved that guitar and I played it for probably 5 years before I upgraded to a japanese built Ibanez Sabre in about 1994..even for a couple of years after that I played the cheap one most..it took me a long time to really even ralize how much finer the Ibanez was...

But Batfink has a point...my Sabre is still playable with all of it's original hardware,and the other became impossible to deal with years ago...

But these days you can get a very well built guitar for $500....and the only difference between $500 and $1000 is really the hardware used...building standards are the same..

Above $1000 you really can get a fine guitar that will last a lifetime...and even though Gibson's quality varies greatly,when you get a good one it is really great...

I think best bang for the buck these days are the Jackson import series from japan and the Edwards guitars on ebay...for right at $1000 for any of those you really can't go wrong...and if you like the explorer(like me) Edwards makes a truly fine explorer and LP at a fraction of the cost of Gibson with better hardware..Duncan pups and gotoh hardware..

[Southpa]

Its been mentioned but a great part of the added expense revolves around using harder to find woods in harder to find dimensions. Taking it to the extreme, if you want one-piece, clean Honduras mahogany with a 1/4 to 1/2" quilted maple, bookmatched droptop then you are going to pay big bucks. The cheap option is small scrap blocks glued together (or plywood) with a figured maple veneer. What do you think sounds or plays better? Now, let us adjourn to that other thread discussing the merits of tonewoods used in solid body guitars.

[postal]

IMO, PRSs are the only high-production guitars worth their cost. They have exceptional quality control at many points along the production line. The consistency between guitars is amazing, and the amount of (USA) handwork is incredible.

Here's a fun test: pick up three of the same model Gibson (I did this with 1960 Les Paul reissues), and see and feel how different they are from each other straight out of the box. Do the same with PRS Custom 22s. Keep in mind that these are all around the same price point. The PRS is, quantifiably, a far superior instrument.

Hahahhahahhahaaa!!!!!!

PRS charges what they do because they STARTED as a handmade custom.

Nowdays, they are a fully automated slap it together factory just like fender.

They just count on their name to carry them through. And for some silly reason.... it's working. PRS has just as many, if not more CNC's than fender corona. But you're still paying that "custom handmade" price.

Gibsons qc has gone by the wayside for years. epiphones are higher quality than gibson.

[westhemann]

Yeah I wasn't going to say anything about PRS...but it is true,they are not really any better,but they do have a more consistent QC it seems than Gibson.But they are made in Korea by World Musical Instruments.

But Epiphones are not higher quality than Gibson.I have had many of both and the Epiphones are consistently mediocre,and after a few years most of them turn into horrible players because of the poorly built necks and cheap fret material...while the Gibsons are much better...as long as you get a good one to begin with.

The worst Gibson I ever had was an explorer with very poor fretwork and shoddy wiring..but the woodwork and materials used were still head and shoulders above Epiphone,and Epiphone still has the bad fretwork and poor wiring.The thing that makes Epiphone a good buy is the price...bang for the buck is fairly decent...but to me you are better off searching for a good Gibson.

Also,resale value on Gibson guitars is very,very high...you can almost always resell for close to what you paid...unlike Epiphone,where you lose almost all value as soon as you buy it.

[FireFly]

epiphones are higher quality than gibson.

lol no.

[Tim37]

i dont see any reason to down automation and cnc in a mass produced guitar. If every thing is set up right cnc can make a much more consistant and acutrate guitar. I think the issue is QC like wes said. you have to be willing to cull more poduct to keep QC standards high that adds to cost also its simple the higher standards you hold the product to the few that your gonna make. so there are two ways to incress production 1. expand but thats very expensive. 2 lower qc standards and let lower quality stuff out of the door.

[RestorationAD]

CNC is not the issue here... Charvel and Jackson were using CNC in the 80s and those guitars are awesome. (correct me if I am wrong please)

And I might add... I started building my own guitars in 1985 because I was poor and couldn't afford good guitars. By the early 90's I had a job and could afford good guitars and continued to build my own because I didn't like the high end guitars of the time. I spent countless hours in pawnshops and used sections finding "MIJ Squiers" and MIJ Ibanez products because the quality was better than the "Gibson" and "Fender" guitars I was repairing at the time (I did a few years as a luthier/repairman and I know about fret dressing brand new LPs so they actually play).

Early PRS guitars were nice. Custom Jacksons and Charvels from the 80s were incredible instruments...early 80s Ibanez guitars are nice instruments but not like a custom Jackson or Charvel. and I remember being astonished by the Prototype Godin Strat the sales rep brought into the shop in 1991. It was an amazing guitar ... made in Canada.

I still build guitars because I can't see spending 3000 on a guitar that I have to work on to get it to play the way I want to (This is my fault... I like stuff different from the rest of the torch wielding mob).

[westhemann]

Guitars made in japan have been very high quality since the late 80s,early 90s...the craftsmanship is very,very nice.

Check out an Edwards sometime..CNC made,but hand assembly and setup in the ESP custom shop...99% custom shop quality at a 1/4 of the price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESP-Edwards-E-CMY-165C...=item3360c28c9d

http://cgi.ebay.com/Edwards-ESP-FOREST-E-F...=item1c15374763

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESP-Edwards-E-LP-98LTS...=item5889b8e1f3

I have had mine for well over a year now,and it is quality through and through...I did not even touch the setup when it arrived.It has a direct switch that I was unfamiliar with,but once I figured that out everything was cool....the guitar is even sheilded flawlessly...with a Duncan JB at the bridge through an Engl powerball full stack on 75% gain and damn near full volume I can stop playing with the volume knob still full on and there is no squealing or hissing...

I believe these are the finest production guitars available...heck,if I could,I would become a dealer for them...imagine being able to sell a guitar that you would not have to lie about the quality of....

[Tim37]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESP-Edwards-LP-Super-F...=item58893c6fdc

one of the best relic jobs i have seen on a factory guitar a little time on the hardware and it would be complete.

[Prostheta]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESP-Edwards-LP-Super-F...=item58893c6fdc

one of the best relic jobs i have seen on a factory guitar a little time on the hardware and it would be complete.

Indeed - aged hardware would complete that, but aged hardware wouldn't help it sell oddly enough! It might look too "not actually new". Perhaps a faux headstock reattachment repair would seal the deal also....?

[postal]

CNC is not the issue here... Charvel and Jackson were using CNC in the 80s and those guitars are awesome. (correct me if I am wrong please)

I dont think so. Mostly pin router.

To this day, they do a LOT of work with a pin router and templates. As of 2007 Jackson got a 2nd CNC... And they really only use it on the production stuff. Jackson custom shop- Mike S, Pablo, Chip, Red- use the pin router.

I spent 3 yrs at fender. Whenever I had a question on how to /why to- I'd ask those guys... Hadnt worked there since 2007.

-----oh--- and CNC *IS* the issue here when prs tries to pawn off CNC cranked out guitars as handmades. The ONLY reason they get the prices they do... fenders are CNC and go for $600. Better setup and QC like PRS would still only mean what....$900? So a PRS is actually worth that same $900? Maybe 1k? Okay... even stretch it, and call it $1,300.... Big drop from that $2.5k aint it?

Edited September 14, 2010 by postal

[DC Ross]

CNC isn't the issue here. It's the incredible amount of work that comes after. As we all know, routing and rough shaping only accounts for a small percentage of the time and effort, which is what the CNC process does. Bodies don't come out of the machines ready for spraying any more than they do after you take your angle grinder to the top to carve it.

And postal, PRS isn't trying to "pawn off CNC cranked out guitars as handmades." Just the opposite, they're very open, honest and actually proud of the fact that they use the technology to make better guitars.

[RestorationAD]

CNC is not the issue here... Charvel and Jackson were using CNC in the 80s and those guitars are awesome. (correct me if I am wrong please)

I dont think so. Mostly pin router.

To this day, they do a LOT of work with a pin router and templates. As of 2007 Jackson got a 2nd CNC... And they really only use it on the production stuff. Jackson custom shop- Mike S, Pablo, Chip, Red- use the pin router.

I spent 3 yrs at fender. Whenever I had a question on how to /why to- I'd ask those guys... Hadnt worked there since 2007.

Thanks for the correction.

One more for you. Can you verify this.

I read the late 80s model 1,2,3,4,5 guitars were built in Japan and shipped to Fort Worth for assembly. I had an 89 Model 4 and it was a pretty nice guitar. Not the greatest but pretty nice.

-----oh--- and CNC *IS* the issue here when prs tries to pawn off CNC cranked out guitars as handmades. The ONLY reason they get the prices they do... fenders are CNC and go for $600. Better setup and QC like PRS would still only mean what....$900? So a PRS is actually worth that same $900? Maybe 1k? Okay... even stretch it, and call it $1,300.... Big drop from that $2.5k aint it?

Don't get me started on PRS. I am not a fan and never will be.

[FireFly]

*whisper* I think there's a CNC vs handmade thread pinned.

PRS? Never played one. The shops around here are too poor to afford to sell one. New gibsons are rare too.

[westhemann]

I have a PRS SE..I bought it on clearance for $280...it is nicer than epiphone by far..but not as nice as my two japanese guitars...

[westhemann]

I just went in and played it a little to refresh my memory..it really is very light and resonant,easy to play,and has a great sound..like an LP junior...so really i say it is well worth the $280...I think this weekend I might get around to modding it for dual humbuckers and see where that goes..