Design Opinions Requested

[Johnny Foreigner]

Starting to plan out the next build.

It's going to be a superthin variation on my first build, clocking in at around 1 1/8"

The body is going to be black limba with a spalt maple cap.

The neck is going to be 5-lam - bubinga - curly maple - padauk - curly maple - bubinga.

What I can't yet decide on is: a) pickups b ) colors

first, pickups: one option would be to take the superthin idea to its logical conclusion - superlight, in which case I'd go for a single alumitone single coil, with a single volume control.

option two would be to defy the superthin idea and still have it be fully featured - two humbuckers (each series/parallel switchable) and an under-bridge piezo. Three volume pots, n-tune, pushpulls, l-shaped toggles (like an SG / V)

so here's option one:

and here's option two:

NB. it may be the body thickness isn't enough to support push-pull pots, in which case I'll ditch the n-tune and put the parallel/series switching on mini-sliders.

EDIT:

option three, which would include the benefits of option one without being quite such an aesthetic stretch, would be this:

[Johnny Foreigner]

And then there's color.

Option one would be to leave everything natural color. I'm not that keen.

Option two would be an amber tint on the body to tie it in with the padauk.

Option three would be to stay amber on the limba, but ramp up to a red on the top so it's all fairly complementary:

and option four would be to ignore front/back clashes and go for something much more interesting on the top.

any thoughts?

[luthier1206]

I like the natural coloring, and the compromise on electronics (2 pickups)

[WezV]

i think the N-tune is just a standard push/pull for on/off. it comes in at about 1" deep so you will have issues with it on a superthin body

But look at it this was- the N-tune just uses a standard push/pull pot... and a standard push/pull pot is just a DPDT switch!

it comes prewired to the battery snap and a ribbon connector that goes to the circuit board... all you need to do it take this wiring off the push/pull and attach it to a DPDT on/on mini switch... the actual tuner gubbins can still go where it would normally - but you will have a mini switch to turn it on rather than the push pull. you would need to file down one side of the pot shaft to match the n-tune pot which is filed flat so the wires can pass through the body

the same mini-toggles are commonly used for series/parallel switches. maybe add a 3-way one for mag/mix/piezo and a standard 3-way toggle for mag pickup selection. thats a lot of mini-switches and just one full size one but it could make sense with carefull layout and will be possible with a super thin body

[Johnny Foreigner]

thats a lot of mini-switches and just one full size one but it could make sense with carefull layout and will be possible with a super thin body

Yeah, definitely possible, but I think I'm slightly drawn to the idea of something that's thin, light and a little bit stripped down. Fewer bells and whistles than my first build - which also has a half inch carve, ntune, etc.

I'm definitely thinking the 2 alumtione SCs is the way forward... some of the aesthetic of the PRSs that come with SCs.

[Drak]

This is going to be an interesting reply.

First off, I have never been a fan of people asking builders how they should build their guitar, and I don't think I've ever done it.

It shows (to me) that YOU really have no purpose or plan in mind, and I have found over the years, because I've done it myself, that a guitar with no plan or purpose will suffer in the end, somehow.

So I would toss the ball right back in your court and advise you to ask yourself what this guitar is, what you'll use it for.

When you can answer that, the rest of the answers will fall into order almost on their own.

If your answer is that you just want to build a super-thin guitar and that's about it, I would advise that although that's OK, you're still not done, you need more of a plan, and it appears you don't have it yet, and the guitar will come out much better when you do.

What I'm saying is this: basically, I use forums and the people who inhabit them to help me figure out HOW to do a thing that I don't yet know how to do, but I already knew WHAT thing I wanted to do, I just need assistance on methods and implementations.

For example, if you asked HOW to apply a spalted top, or how to finish a spalted top, or how to equalize the inherent weight issues of a superthin, those would be appropriate questions (for me).

But to get to the level of asking how many pickups and what type of pickups you should use and what colors you should use really just tells me you haven't planned it out the way it should be yet, and I would never build a guitar someone else planned out for me, unless they were paying for it.

The bottom line is that I think only YOU can answer these questions, and YOU are the appropriate party to make the decisions.

To add to it, I did a superthin once, and didn't like it at all, it was an interesting idea, but I hated the guitar and chucked it for parts shortly after it was done. Just FYI.

[WezV]

thats a lot of mini-switches and just one full size one but it could make sense with carefull layout and will be possible with a super thin body

Yeah, definitely possible, but I think I'm slightly drawn to the idea of something that's thin, light and a little bit stripped down. Fewer bells and whistles than my first build - which also has a half inch carve, ntune, etc.

well i was really responding to this bit which suggests you are considering a 'bells and whistles' laden guitar

option two would be to defy the superthin idea and still have it be fully featured - two humbuckers (each series/parallel switchable) and an under-bridge piezo. Three volume pots, n-tune, pushpulls, l-shaped toggles (like an SG / V)

which i think can still be done quite easily with the superthin idea and doesnt have to defy it at all... but push/pulls are a problem with thin bodies and mini-switches really start to come into their own

I have my first N-tune coming just because i am doing a rebuild on a yamaha RGX-A2. it has a rotary pickup selector with LED's around the volume pot which i find pointless and also the rotarys are a bit stiff so i am putting a 3-way toggle and N-tune volume pot on to have LED's that are actually useful on the guitar and make use of the otherwise redundant battery box. i was also considering some coil splits with LED's to show if its split or full humbucker/P100 and possibly even a LED Vu meter running around somehwere.... maybe not we will see

[Johnny Foreigner]

This is going to be an interesting reply.

Very interesting.

I guess I'm asking precisely because I don't yet know what I'm trying to achieve with this build, and as with any creative decision, I find it useful to bounce ideas off people.

Even just going through the process of doing the mockups to post up forced me to think through a few things and come to a few decisions.

Ultimately I'm not going to design my build around other peoples' opinions, but those opinions - and considerations I hadn't even thought about, not to mention the experience of people who've been doing this a lot longer than me - are very useful in helping me to make up my mind.

And this guitar is really for me an exploration of form. I want to take what I've learned on my first two builds and create something that is a variation on a theme. Which brings me back to my thought that what I really want is something stripped back, simple, light and clean.

All that said, I think asking for advice on color is PERFECTLY valid. Not all of us are that great at appreciating color, and others (I'm thinking of guitarnut here) have more experience with the science of complementary colors, how different woods take color and so forth.

You're right that you need to have a clear vision yourself about what you want in the guitar, but it's also important to remember that objectivity is a hard thing to come by with only one set of eyes.

[Johnny Foreigner]

possibly even a LED Vu meter running around somehwere....

see, that's the sort of pointless sh1t that gets me all excited.

so I guess the conclusion I'm coming to is that I want this to be fairly minimalist. but I think the 1 alumitone makes the neck join area look weird, so I'm going to go for two SCs, probs alumitones, but subject to revision.

okay, pickups sorted. any thoughts on color?

[avengers63]

I agree with Drak on this one regarding anything regarding the design process.

But since you asked....

Along with other reasons, the Lace Alumitone were specifically designed to reduce weight. IIRC, they weigh about 1/2 of what a "regular" pup weighs, maybe less. With this in mind, I wouldn't worry much about the extra 3oz from the 2nd pickup. You'd never notice the difference. Honestly, I don't believe you'd see an appreciable difference with the weight of the added electronics either.

Why?

The weight of the wood removed for the 2nd pup route will counteract some of the weight of the pup. Likewise with the larger control cavity for the electronics.

Something else to consider for the super-thin is the control cavity itself. You might want to consider top routing it and going with pickguard mounted electronics. If you back-route, you'll lose depth in the c/c with the back plate. It may only be 1/8"-3/16", but you don't have very much to play with back there and it could make the world of difference between using p/p pots (and the N-tune) or not.

[Johnny Foreigner]

Something else to consider for the super-thin is the control cavity itself. You might want to consider top routing it and going with pickguard mounted electronics. If you back-route, you'll lose depth in the c/c with the back plate. It may only be 1/8"-3/16", but you don't have very much to play with back there and it could make the world of difference between using p/p pots (and the N-tune) or not.

I think I'd rather lose the p/p pots than have to put a pickguard on. Aesthetics is paramount for me, and most pickguards just don't do it for me.

So I'm pretty much settled on the 2 alumitone, 2 volume, 1 toggle, nothing else scheme.

so... colors?

[ScottR]

so... colors?

If the woods you are using bear any resemblance to your mock up, I'd keep them pretty close to natural. A mild amber tint would look nice on both the front and back with a mild burst on the front of a shade that ties to the bubinga in the neck. The padouk is going become closer to that color in time. Speaking of which, you are going to have to work very carefull to keep orange dust out of your maple.

SR

[verhoevenc]

I haven't read this whole thing, so sorry if there's any repeats. But how I see it... if you're going to super light, I kinda like the idea of the single alumitone pickup. It fits with what Drak was talking about "what is this guitar for?" If the answer is "an experiment in making a light guitar" I say for SURE go with the single pickup, no question. HOWEVER, that said, I think you need to re-think your neck and body material choices a bit if this is what you want to go for. Not that black limba can't be light... but there's lighter out there, especially for a single-coil type guitar. However, most notable is the weight of your neck woods. Bubinga is NOT a light wood. If the idea behind the build is to be light, I say find new neck materials personally. Also, keep in mind, with a super thin body, ANY extra weight in the neck is going to translate quite heavily into a guitar who neck-dives.

Chris

[RestorationAD]

I haven't read this whole thing, so sorry if there's any repeats. But how I see it... if you're going to super light, I kinda like the idea of the single alumitone pickup. It fits with what Drak was talking about "what is this guitar for?" If the answer is "an experiment in making a light guitar" I say for SURE go with the single pickup, no question. HOWEVER, that said, I think you need to re-think your neck and body material choices a bit if this is what you want to go for. Not that black limba can't be light... but there's lighter out there, especially for a single-coil type guitar. However, most notable is the weight of your neck woods. Bubinga is NOT a light wood. If the idea behind the build is to be light, I say find new neck materials personally. Also, keep in mind, with a super thin body, ANY extra weight in the neck is going to translate quite heavily into a guitar who neck-dives.

Chris

+1

Padauk is not light.

I have been surprised by peruvian walnut's weight. I have recently acquired some very light pieces.

[avengers63]

African mahogany is pretty light. That might be a good replacement for the limba or bubinga. Poplar isn't usually that attractive by itself, but it takes dye & stain VERY well, so that might be another body base option. Likewise with some swamp ash. You could also forgo a multi-wood neck and just use a known light wood.

[Johnny Foreigner]

ok, lots to think about.

and thank you for all the thoughtful replies - exactly why i put the questions out there so i could benefit from the experience of others and be forced to think about things differently.

thoughts on maple alone for the neck? Light enough?

[RestorationAD]

ok, lots to think about.

and thank you for all the thoughtful replies - exactly why i put the questions out there so i could benefit from the experience of others and be forced to think about things differently.

thoughts on maple alone for the neck? Light enough?

Depends... yes an no. Yes it would be fine. No you haven't defined what you are after...

If you are going to build a super light super thin guitar Hard Maple might not be the right answer... I have successfully used soft maple (laminated) as a neck material and it is lighter than hard maple.

[Johnny Foreigner]

hmmm

I think the thinness and lightness is a secondary consideration.

I think what I really really want is something that feels a little .... *simplified*

I think thinness and lightness are part of that, but I'm not trying to build the lightest or thinnest.

So I'm going to stick with my wood choices, go for the 2x alumitone sc layout and decide on whether to dye or not nearer the time.

thanks for the input, all.

[verhoevenc]

My vote goes to some nice, light, honduran mahogany. I have some billets that are just RIDICULOUS light... like it baffles me. And it's a great wood for necks obviously! If light is your goal, that might be a winner.

Or walnut, walnut's pretty good too, just difficult to find quartered.

Chris

[avengers63]

Or walnut, walnut's pretty good too, just difficult to find quartered.

That's why you cut it and re-orient it. Nothing wring with that at all.

And walnut is awesome to work with.

[verhoevenc]

No, nothing wrong with that. However, you have to have a pretty thick pieces to correct any more off-quarter than like 15 degrees.

However, for the sake of minimizing waste I just hang around until I find some quartered stock. Luckily, I found some 6/4 perfectly quartered stock awhile back... American black walnut... in Holland. Bah hahaha, I shipped it back with me.

Chris

[sam_c]

I like the look of option 3 the best. Although I would like to see it with a 3pc laminate mahog neck and a limba body with a padauk cap. single humbucker pickup with series/split/parallel toggle switch. ditch the tuner IMO

[verhoevenc]

I like the look of option 3 the best. Although I would like to see it with a 3pc laminate mahog neck and a limba body with a padauk cap. single humbucker pickup with series/split/parallel toggle switch. ditch the tuner IMO

So a totally different guitar? Hahahahahaha.

Chris

[sam_c]

Yeah I guess so. same guitar design, just different woods. I think a paddy top would be a nice way to get the deep red colour without staining. Although I know some ppl dont like the colour after it ages to a brown/plum colour.